FDA accelerates full approval of Pfizer-BioNTech Vaccine

Biden and the left aren't taking responsibility for Covid either. They are blaming rising cases on everyone but them.

It's probably getting harder and harder for you to believe but, I am not on the right. But I am for fairness and not hypocrisy. If the left are going to criticize Trump and the Republicans and use Covid as a political tool to win an election then the left should expect the very same in return. I'm going to call them out for their hypocrisy, not because I am on the right, but because I am in the middle. I called the right out for their crap while Obama was president and I call the left out for their crap against Trump. To the left that makes them think I kiss Trump's ass and wipe it for him.

I think you are having trouble seeing that people do look to politicians for their medical decisions. Seems weird to me and I agree that that is kind of stupid. But, it is what it is. Democratic politicians are doing their best at pushing vaccines and masks so apparently THEY think people listen to politicians and they do. Think about it. Let's say today the governor tells us it is safe to go out without masks but tomorrow it's too dangerous to go out without masks but then the governor will tell us that come October 1st, we don't have to wear masks anymore. That's because they expect us to listen to their every word. On September 30th we will have our masks on because it won't be safe but come the very next day on October 1st, people will be swarming all over the place not wearing masks anymore because the governor told us we're safe. Remember, September 30th we can catch Covid but on October 1st we can no longer catch Covid. We make our medical decisions on what some politician told us we should or should not do because we're stupid and can't think for ourselves.

 

They did this by saying ___________________________?

Your political position hasn't crossed my mind. It doesn't matter to me so I don't usually pay attention to it. I did wonder why you registered in 2015 but just became an active poster. I don't care about it enough to check your posting history though.

I think you will find that I'm able to converse with people with whom I disagree. It doesn't bother me unless the person is being a jerk.

I know that people look to them for medical decisions. I don't understand why though. I also don't understand why people want to dress like celebrities or why people want to keep up with the Joneses. I don't worship other human beings so it's not a mindset I "get".

I have a question for you. Have you ever heard about the McDonald's lawsuit in which a woman was scalded on her upper and inner thighs when a cup of coffee she placed between her legs spilled? It's a famous personal injury case if you want to look it up.

With that case in mind, just think about it a second longer...coupled with people (whatever % it is) that need their politicians to tell them what to do about masks and vaccines...hold both those thoughts for another second....

Why in the world does it make sense that just about anybody in the country can procure a weapon or more than one?

 

They did it by saying that rising cases are the fault of the unvaccinated, even as the vaccinated spread the virus. IE - not taking responsibility for rising cases and just blaming it on someone else. In my opinion, the virus was what it was under Trump, and is what it is under Biden.

I was looking for a moderate forum to post on way back in 2015 and registered on a few different sites. I liked another one better and have been there for years but the site seems to have been taken over by lefties over the last year and I was getting a little tired of the constant one sidedness. Ironically, the right moderators there are more tolerable of the other side's opinions while the left moderators seem very untolerable of the other side's opinions. So, I'm tired of their bias and I'm trying out this forum and another one and that's why I'm a "rookie" even though registered in 2015. I do lean right but the other forum I am trying out seems to be skewed too far to the right. So, so far this is where I have landed, hopefully somewhere in the middle overall. I actually enjoy talking with people such as yourself, even if we don't see eye to eye.

I do remember the McDonalds case but I must confess you've totally lost me with your last paragraphs and I'm also not totally sure what you mean by "procure". I actually have a very interesting history of my evolving opinion on guns and gun control.

 

Right. The virus is going to do what viruses do (spread and mutate and spread and mutate). Our President's job is to lead us through it.

You don't owe me an explanation but that's for sharing that.

What I was trying to convey is how scary it is that someone can burn themselves with a cup of very hot coffee and others are getting sick from ingesting disinfectants and still others look to their politicians to make their medical decisions for them...are these the kind of people that we want to have guns in their possession?

All the gun proponents say they are reasonable and responsible and most probably are. But, I'm not comfortable with anybody in that "column" having control over a deadly weapon. I mean if you can't figure out that coffee is hot and doesn't belong between your legs or disinfectant is a poison when ingested or politicians are not doctors...what other things do you not understand? (That's a universal "you" not you, personally).

 

FDA approval is already a forgone conclusion. This now has political ramifications. Imagine if the FDA came out and said it did not pass? There are so many red flags like the control groups being vaccinated. There will never be any valid long term studies. The political entities will never pay any price.

The head of the CDC let it slip that the vaccinated can catch and spread the virus as easily as the unvaccinated so in effect, vaccine passports are useless.

 

I have a whole lot of opinions that have evolved over the years on guns and gun control. I could write an essay on the subject. Probably not for the Covid forum though and I have stayed out of the gun control forum. Yes, there are many idiots on both sides. Not sure how much that has to do with guns and gun control but I can certainly understand your point on that.

Getting back to Covid though, I find it truly stupid how we had restrictions in restaurants where you had to have a mask on to enter the restaurant and you had to have one on when leaving the restaurant but you didn't have to have one on while eating in the restaurant for an hour. It's like you're following the rules which seem to imply that you can't catch Covid with your mask off inside a restaurant for an hour but you're chances of getting Covid or spreading it greatly increase while going in through the door or out through the door. Just an example of the stupidity of Americans for following government guidelines. It just boggles my mind how many people thought that by following the rules, they couldn't possibly get or spread Covid while eating inside a restaurant for an hour with your mask off. If Covid spreads it can't possibly be because of this, it's those damned red state Trump supporters who refuse to wear their masks.

 

Have you ever studied human psychology or disorders of the brain or criminology?

Basically, the human brain is designed for self-preservation. This is why some suicidal people stop mid-action. We are hard-wired to survive.

With that in mind, it makes sense that we look for ways to minimize our risks while maximizing our rewards. In your example, the risk is contracting the virus from a seated diner or the diner contracts it from the employee. The reward for the employee is a paycheck and, for the diner, a chance to eat out again and enjoy food. All day long, 24/7, we are all making these decisions on everything, all the time.

But, and this is important...we have to understand the counter in order to recognize the initial (it's all relative). For instance, back in the late 1980s/early 1990s high school students were being warned about HIV. At that time, it was believed it was contagious between people in non-sexual relationship cohabitating. As scientists learned more they amended that and said it was from native Africans. As they learned more they said it was gay relationships. As they learned more, it was said that any exchange of bodily fluids can transmit the virus if one or both sexual partners are HIV-positive.

However, along this journey of scientific discovery of the virus and resulting disease people followed the exact same PATTERN that we are now seeing with COVID-19. They latch onto ONE determinant and that's it. In their minds,

"as long as I don't do _________________" I'll be fine

or

"if I do this for just a little bit, but not that, I'll be fine."

or

"I can ONLY get it if I go into the city."

or

<whatever> they need to *feel* safe but functional.

The point is if you follow the psychological process of any <major thing> it all follows the same pattern. We get startled by the news. We find some place in the sand to draw the line and we stick to that until something upsets that apple cart.

It's all basic psychology. So, as long as that pattern keeps up, we are going to move beyond COVID-19 as a society until the next big thing comes along. The goal is to not drive ourselves crazy getting through the meantime.

 

A lot of wisdom in that. Covid is driving us all nuts. Just so you know, I'm fearful of Delta. I've been vaccinated. A family member of mine and her husband just both got Delta. Haven't been in contact with them recently so I don't have to worry about that but I'm still worried anyway about Delta. They were vaccinated and played by all the rules. They both work remotely at home and yet they still got it and they were both sick as dogs and couldn't work for several days. Thanks to the vaccine (probably) they weren't hospitalized but they were still very sick. It was much more than a runny nose. They couldn't function for days.

I have two children going to school. They start next week with in person learning. They have been vaccinated. They are required to wear masks in school. As I often post, I'm not convinced at all that either the vaccine or masking will stop them from getting Delta and bringing it home. This is bigger than people realize. It's NOT just 1%. It is far greater than that. I couldn't even guess at the number but I believe the range to be somewhere in between 33% and 90%, if every single vaccinated person were tested. Vaccinated people are spreading it. Masked people are spreading it and, of course, the unmasked and the unvaccinated are spreading it too.

Starting when the kids go back to school next week, I am going to start masking up again, because it does have SOME benefit but I'm also staying home as much as possible because I don't trust masks to stop it. I'm also cancelling all unimportant doctor appointments because of Delta, especially a dentist appointment coming up. It's stupid to be in there with a mask off while they are working on you. Our state does not yet require masks again it but I don't give a crap about what the government says. I'm going to do what I think is best and not have my fingers up my ass waiting for the governor to issue a mask mandate. My wife is driving the kids to school in the morning and I am picking up the kids from school to bring them home because I don't trust the small enclosed school buses to keep them safe from Delta. I don't trust their vaccinations to keep them safe from Delta. I don't trust their masks to keep them safe from Delta. Riding in that small enclosed bus with a bunch of other kids, even with masks on, is just plain stupid.

 

That's good thinking. And you are right, it's the vaccinated that are spreading this, and to be fair to them, they were encouraged by the authorities to drop their guard. But, the guard needs to go back up again.

And yes, I talked to vaccinated who got COVID and this idea that it is "mild"? They didn't end up in the hospital, but they were Sick. As. Hell. There is nothing mild about it. This vaccine doesn't kill the virus, it attacks just the spike protein and the rest keep replicating, and during that period when your body hasn't driven the virus count down to where you can't infect others, you can infect others, and current studies show that you're infectious for about 10 days after catching it. Some of those days are pre-symptoms, so your isolation practices will be of great benefit to those around you. The unvaccinated are infectious for 16 days, that's longer than the current 14 days that the CDC is now recommending, and the CDC is currently recommending NO quarantine for vaccinated exposed, which is just wrong. The CDC has flubbed this every step of the way, starting with a complete face plant on accurate testing kits that made isolating this initially through contract tracing, impossible.

THE CDC’S SCREW UPS.

Now Israel has been studying this carefully and their research shows that natural immunity is seven times stronger than vaccine immunity. If this holds up, then it stands to reason that if you are vaccinated, then get infected, that post infection you should have much stronger immunity, being that sick will really suck, but that's something to hold on to.

Wall Street Journal

Zero is a lot better than 60%!

Natural immunity from SARS 1 (Covid is Sars 2) is still fully robust two decades later.
"The CDC resolutely refuses to acknowledge either the basic scientific principles surrounding vaccines and the production of antibodies or clinical data confirming that contracting covid confers immunity, but I am sure the reasons have to do with politics, not science." And I bet it has lots and lots and lots to do with money. The government pays $40 for two shot and then medicare pays whoever delivers the shot another $40, so $80 for two, roughly $60 a jab. That's a lot of dough, and they get nothing for admitting that natural immunity is just as good if not better.

That's troubling. I had already suspected that if you had natural immunity that there was no benefit to getting vaccinated, and here is good evidence that confirms that, plus, shows than getting vaccinated after recovery actually reduces your immunity.

(https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2)

And of course the CDC completely ignores that in the big bums rush to get everyone vaccinated no matter what. Remember it was the CDC that ran the Tuskegee Institute Study that deliberately infected black men with syphilis and then watched it destroy them over the next 60 years. Think of all the harm they deliberately inflicted on not just these men, but their wives and girlfriends, all of which they knew had no health care.

I wish you the best. I think your response and precautions are dead on.

 

I'm sorry they went through that but glad they both recovered. It is a scary thing for sure.

I'm not a doctor but I have medical experience and I've been researching all this since it started last year. On the surface, I would think your estimates might be a tad high. I don't time now but I will make a note to myself to look into that more.

As a parent, I understand your anxiety. In fact, all of my anxiety is about my children and COVID. I'm in IL and they've been on remote learning since last year. Now my oldest has hybrid (in-class and remote) and my youngest is going back to the classroom soon. It's scary. Kids are little germ catchers and carriers when there isn't a worldwide pandemic.

Have they explained to the parents how it will work inside the classroom?

Did they move desks farther apart or use any kind of shields around them?

How will they handle play time and lunch time?

Will they require (or allow) masks?

Is there a school nurse on staff?

What is the procedure if a child or teacher or staff member tests positive for COVID?

This is what I would do...ask these questions of the Principal or your kids' teachers and decide if you are okay with their responses. If not, make a plan to do something else. However, keep in mind faculty and staff want to do all they can to help our children transition back to the live classroom and some of them surely have their own concerns about the virus, variants and vaccines. I'm sure they will be open to figuring out what works best for you children. I know it's hard. I get it. It's going to be okay.

 

I found this article about Delta and transmission. In short, it's too early to know what percentage of fully vaccinated people can transmit the virus asymptomatically. They are working on a study at 20 colleges and expect more answers in 5+ months.

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...ariants-are-still-an-unknown-for-transmission

I know that doesn't calm your fears about the Delta variant but, keep in mind, that we have data and trends on Delta in other countries so we can get a general idea of what's up ahead.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...nt-have-store-us-we-asked-coronavirus-experts

Please let me know if you have any questions for @CenterField and I will talk to him on your behalf.

Try not to panic. I know it's hard. I'm a parent too and my kids are heading back to school soon as well. I wouldn't be stressed at all if I didn't have kids. I also have an elderly mother. She's evil though and evil people seem to live forever so that is not as big a worry.

 

No he isn't lol.

 

The vaccine is systematically racist as minorities don't believe it works.
They don't drink the Kool-aid.

 

I don't know 100% the answers to all of your questions. But, Covid spreads throughout the room indoors so to think you are safe because kid's desks are six feet apart is, again, foolish, even if they are wearing masks, which I had previously said ARE required. A kid sitting on the other side of the room breathes out Covid and it circulates throughout the entire room due to HVAC systems. Even the medical experts have admitted that social distancing inside is close to being useless. Sure, masks mitigate things to some extent but, as I have posted many times, the left have these delusions that all masks are the same. They believe a mask is a mask is a mask. They don't seem to care whether it is a homemade cloth mask, an N-95 mask, if the masks are worn correctly, if we wear the same mask 1,000 times, or if we practice good infection control procedures while putting on, wearing, or taking masks off. As long as you follow the left's rules, these things don't matter because a mask is a mask is a mask. But, They DO matter. They matter a lot and people are fools to think that just any old mask worn any old way makes everyone safe. In fact, most masks, actually ALL masks, spread the virus to varying degrees based on the things I mentioned so it is extremely foolish to think it is the unmasked spreading the virus and not those wearing masks.

As far as I know with anyone who tests positive contact tracing is done and everyone in the loop is quickly quarantined. My response is ------ SO What? Sure, I would be relieved if my kids were found not to be in that loop (this time) but, if they were in the loop, what good does that do me? I've still got a kid who may have Delta or may have brought it home to me and then I have to quarantine too. It's like the school is loaded with gasoline barrels with students carrying cigarette lighters or matches around. Do I feel lucky today? No, I don't feel lucky at all. Delta doesn't care if you are vaccinated. Delta doesn't care if you are a wearing mask. And now we've got Lambada, which is supposedly vaccine resistant. It just pisses me off that the left falsely imply that if you are vaccinated or wear masks, then you are safe and we'll just blame all cases on the unvaccinated and the unmasked. It's all their fault, while the left go out en masse, doing all the stupid stuff they believe is safe when it is actually NOT safe.

 

Stop spreading that same tired BS claim that the people not getting vaccinated are white conservatives influenced by conservative TV. Perhaps you would care to explain who influences black people, who avoid the vaccination in larger percentage numbers than whites, to not get vaccinated. Perhaps you can explain why you avoid this data that has been posted on PF many times? Are you claiming they watch FOX? Are you aware of what various Black spokespersons have said about the vaccine? Stop perpetuating stereotypes regarding white conservatives and try engaging in a real debate. I am pretty conservative and I got vaccinated and I don't watch FOX -- so I for one don't conform to your stereotype. I know many white people who don't watch FOX and their concern regarding the vaccinated is that it is experimental technology, the side effects are not fully known, and the legal liability for side effects has been waved by the Government. The most dishonest thing you and other liberals do IMHO is continue pretend that FOX is not part of the Government/Media complex -- when of course it is.

 

Much of that also depends on how old the kids are. It would be much harder to control in very young kids because they don't think in terms of caution. Are they leaving the water fountains functional, for example? What about sanitizing the doors and seats after EVERY kid uses the restroom? And on and on.

However, there is also another major "cost" of keeping children out of school for another year.

Some children have developed depression and suicidal ideations by being isolated from their friends.
Some children have fallen behind in their school work because they don't have the structure of the classroom (and some need that).
Federal employees were offered time paid off to stay home with their kids but that's not the case for many working Americans.
Daycares and after-school programs present just another "obstacle" to mitigation.

These are all tough questions and only you can decide what is best for yourself and your children and that may not be aligned with the "official recommendations".

It was my understanding that schools received some type of financial assistance to update their ventilation systems in preparation for when schools reopened around the country. I'm not sure if that was done at my kids' schools because they don't live with me and my ex doesn't communicate very well. I'm a bit less anxious because my kids are old enough to understand what's happening and can think through risks on their own.

If I had any say in their schooling and/or they lived with me, I would ask them what they would like to do and do whatever I needed to do to make that happen. For example, I wouldn't mind getting my credentials to homeschool them indefinitely. I wouldn't mind if they wanted to do a hybrid program so they can see their friends a couple times per week. In that sense, I don't really care what Fauci or the CDC recommends. I would tailor our choices to what I thought was best for MY kids given the option.

I'm not going to engage in this aspect of the conversation again. I've already told you that this is not a left or right issue. It's a medical issue and if you were willing to look at all the information, it's very easy to find out that most unvaccinated people are not on the left. I'm done with the partisan blame-game.

I "get" the anxiety. Many people think that I'm always calm. I usually am but not ALWAYS. So, please understand that I'm not trying to look down on you and dismiss your concerns. I wouldn't bother replying to you if I didn't care to help you through this.

My ex kidnapped our two children, took ALL of my personal belongings (EVERYTHING) and had someone forge my name on the sale of our house. I literally started over with NOTHING. Trust me. I understand anxiety and fear. And, as hard as that was for me (and it still is as I miss my children every second of every day), it helps me to put things in perspective. I've always been willing to openly communicate and I'm generally a calm person (I don't see the "value" in getting upset about everything) but losing my entire life helped me to learn acceptance. It didn't make me happy. It didn't make the pain go away. It didn't even help me make sense of what happened, BUT, acceptance (not agreement, just acknowledgeable that an event took place) helped me to survive.

I share this with you because I would like to see your takeaway as finding the answers to...

What circumstances can I live with?
What is absolutely NON-negotiable?
What compromises am I willing to make?
Who can help me make the best decisions for myself and my family?

When you start thinking in terms of YOU (and the breadth of what you can control), it will become easier to find peace in those decisions and none of it requires anybody else's approval, input or cooperation.

The obvious is knowing is better than not knowing. No? Again, though, I'm not afraid of difficult truths so I'd rather know something sooner rather than later.

Yep, that's how it works. It's tough being an adult. That's why liquor stores were classified as "essential businesses".

Anybody with kids knows this was the case before COVID came to town. They are messy, walking germ bombs. That's kinda their gig.

I was married almost 25 years and my ex worked at the airport. EVERY Christmas/New Years, we ALL got sick because the flu shots are acclimated to where you live. We were exposed to all the national/international germs flowing through the airport and were all on the brink every year without fail.

Nobody has ever invented anything to make kids stop spreading their cooties. It doesn't exist. Maybe go back to that "acceptance" thing on this point.

Not a left or right issue.
It's a medical issue.
It's an intelligence issue.
It's a personal responsibility issue.

Still NOT a political issue.

 

I had a whole bunch of stuff typed out as a response but then I deleted it all because at the end I realized that since this article is dated April 2021 and this is now August 2021, most of the information in your article is pre-Delta and my main point is, is that Delta is a whole new ballgame. Lambada could be another whole new ballgame. These things don't play by the original Covid rules so whatever knowledge we had with the original Covid strains has become mostly useless now. If we embrace the old Covid knowledge as still being valid now, we are making a huge mistake because the game is different with different rules. Delta changed the game on us and we had better realize that.

I know Centerfield means well and is frustrated with the anti-vax crowd and the whackos who are just plain stupid. But, he isn't going to remove the fear of the anti-vaxxers and he can't change stupid. He IS burned out from his job. One thing he's not good at is in thinking outside the box. Science is always two steps behind so by the time you get hard science it is already too late. Covid has proven that we can't wait for hard science because by then it is too late. He needs to open up his mind more to being proactive instead of reactive. Science is ALWAYS reactive and the virus just loves that. In a science that is always changing every day and we never know the whole truth and nothing but the truth, he seems to be automatically preprogrammed to reject everything that isn't the hard science which is already outdated the day it comes out. And, in my opinion, he doesn't listen to ideas and thoughts from people like me because he just assumes that I watch Fox News every day and am an avid QAnon believer wearing animal skins and carrying a spear to defend my deal leader, Donald J Trump.

The fact is, I still believe we need to be proactive to beat this thing so I am not really interested in his hard science reactive thoughts that are already old news the day they come out.

 

Delta was found in India in December 2020 so we have some data on how it moves.

fyi...Lambda doesn't have an extra "a".

 

Oh look, another con pretending to care about minorities. That's adorable.

 

Of course they are concerned. Who are they going to blame everything on if all the black people die? And, they still need them as housekeepers and janitors. /s

 

It would have been both nice and shocking to get a well reasoned argument in response to my comment. Suffice it to say I am not shocked. You are now on my ignore list. I am not here to sling sh*t back and forth with 50 cent army members.

 

I think it’s hilarious the same people who say requiring ID to vote is racist are the same morons now saying we need a vaccination ID card to do anything.

 

Ok, see ya!

 

I find it more comical that rightists equate our constitutional right to vote to eating at a restaurant.

 

Check this out:

https://qz.com/2044284/icelands-rising-covid-19-cases-demonstrate-vaccine-efficacy/?utm_source=YPL


Exactly as I have been saying.