What the hell is the Greek People's Problem?

Most countries are a mix of socialistic and capitalistic elements. America is one of them.

To outright claim that all socialism is inherently bad is like saying all capitalism is bad.

 

It is bad. A city that decides to build a road is not the same as a Federal government demanding the city buy cars so that everyone can drive on it.

 

Revere, take notes. This is how you argue against socialism. It's the extent of socialism that makes the difference.

Greece did have more socialistic spending than us when looking at government budget percentages. This did make them more vulnerable even before the EU's meddling, but what really pushed things over the edge involved their financial sector.

Had Greece not been put into a position where they were the playground of bankers, a collapse would not have occurred.

No matter what course Greece takes, they will have to reform their entitlements, but they're better off in the long run doing this on their own terms than having the IMF force changes on them.

 

Go play with yourself.

 

US corruption being our government trying to play socialism?

 

When one is raised, from birth, with the tit of government in their mouth. Nourished and suckled through each day of their lives. Then, suddenly that government shoves them away from that tit....first one cries, then gets angry.
The Greek people are angry.
American liberals want the same for America. The problem is timing. America's tit has already dried up. It can't provide nourishment...still, the liberals demand it.
Instead of asking 'what's up with those Greeks?, you should be asking 'what's up with those liberals?. They see proof that Greek style socialism is a failure. Yet they continue to pursue socialism for this country...go figure.

 

Listen Mr. Spanish Fly.

Your social beliefs are so destructive to my society they are like cyanide!

I mean for real, you have NO idea how American society would tear itself apart if put in the situation Greece is in.

If America was EVER in the position Greece is in today, it would be the biggest disaster the Western World would ever know. Sure, you'd get your little commie ways, until some warlord from North Africa marches in and takes your little commune away from you and exports you to North Africa in chains.

That is what would happen.

So enjoy your little diatribes and stuff, by the time you are in your 50's and 60's.. you are going to hate life. You are going to hate everything you ever stood for now. I only wish I would be alive to see it.

 

America's turn to be in Greece's situation is coming VERY soon.

 

Greek people's problem is that they want to continue to suckle at the teat of their BIG MOMMY GOVERNMENT!


They have been sucking their Government DRY for SO LONG they don't CARE if the government is broke. They still want all their SOCIAL PROGRAMS.



Socialism that runs on debt and deficit spending = EPIC FAIL.


Hope Obama and Congress is watching.

QE3 Please!

 

Yes do you know the definition of Socialism.

No try again.

That's not socialism.

 

How Goldman Sachs Helped Greece to Mask its True Debt

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,676634,00.html

Since coming to office in March 2004, Greece's center-right New Democracy government has cut tax rates on corporations from 35% three years ago, to 25% currently. This year it will begin cutting personal taxes incrementally over three years.

http://www.minfin.gr/portal/en/resource/contentObject/id/b51ce2d6-cceb-41a7-84ef-4cf46c92430a

Tax cuts lead to budget woes.

Sound familiar?

 

I thought SPENDING lead to budget woes.

The tax argument holds NO WATER for the following reason.

If you SPEND MORE THAN YOU TAKE IN (regardless if you raise or lower taxes) = Negative MARGINS = FAILURE!

The argument to raise taxes is an excuse for more spending!

EVEN IF - Greece raised their taxes to 90% - if you look at their debt (and interest), current spending, and GDP growth expectation = EPIC FAIL.

It is NOT taxes, it IS SPENDING.


I find it totally amazing that governments can NOT figure out the simplest of business models.

Revenue - Costs = Margins!

You forget that equation - you fail!

It ALWAYS - ALWAYS - ALWAYS - starts with COSTS! If costs are to high you fail!

What are your COSTS (SPENDING) - can you sustain it, does it equate to expect returns?

The problem is that if you focus ONLY on the revenue, and IGNORE costs you WILL FAIL.

The revenue side of the equation is an unknown, you can guess - but it IS an unknown.

A government CAN RAISE taxes, but that does NOT mean that tax revenue will increase (that IS an assumption). If jobs don't pick up, if pay remains flat or decreases, if business move out of the country, if homes remain depress, if debt/equity ratios remain high - it doesn't matter.

You can double or triple the tax rate - it doesn't mean you will generate enough revenue to cover your costs.

Arguing from the TAX (revenue) side of the equation is what you always here from those that support Socialism. You would never ever hear a successful business measure their business model expectations from the revenue side alone.

No you wonder why Greece and others run 100s of billions of debt, they spend and FAIL the manage their costs.

It FEEDS on itself as MORE politicians PROMISE MORE services to GET ELECTED. Yet they do NOT have the funds to keep those promises so they borrow more.

EPIC FAIL!

 

There is a video floating around on the internet of a spoiled rich girl that is standing outside here house with her parents waiting for her birthday gift to be uncovered. She is very excited because it is obviously a car underneath the cover. The father, or whatever he is, pulls the cover off to reveal a nice new sports car, but the girl starts screaming, crying and throwing a tantrum because she doesn't like the color. I think the spoiled girl in this video is a perfect small scale representation of the Greek people. They have been coddled and spoiled their for all of their lives, and now that they have to work 40 hours a week, they are ready to hang their politicians with piano wire. Inconvenience and hardship is something that is unknown to them, and they fear it.

 

As was said previously, Greece's problem is that wages did not increase to match the switch to the Euro. The Greek people have endured many hardships, far more than Americans.

 

Just because you say it, does not make it so.

 

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*)!

The Greeks worked the second longest hours in the OECD. They blew the US out of the water and were second only to the south koreans. The have worked the second longest hours for the last ten years. and have worked more than 40 hours every year for the last ten years.

Last year the average Greek worked 350 hours more than the average American. So who exactly are the slakers?


http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS

But we won't bother with annoying things like facts will we???

 

Right -that is why Greece has defaulted in the past.
The ONLY reason that we SEE Greece's problem is that they can't print their way out of it (like the U.S.) - they have to borrow.

The Wage / Tax argument holds no water if you don't want to look at the other side of the balance sheet (COSTS)!

Greece has defaulted time and time again - they NEVER EVER LEARN.

As soon as they went independent they became a running defaulting joke, they defaulted in 1826, 1843, 1860 and 1893.

Then to AVOID future defaults they just printed money and tried to INFLATE their way out of debt - however that didn't work - they had inflation.

Hyperinflation in 1941-1944 finally topped out at 100,000,000,000-drachma notes in 1944. Yeah - WWII was big factor.

Then in 1953 (long after the war ended) they devalued their currency again - 1000:1. However that didn't work - inflation kept coming so they printed more and more money.

Then they pegged it to the dollar in 1973 30:1 - of course that didn't last and by the time they entered into the EURO in 2002 inflation took it to 400:1.

Now using the EURO they can't hide their debt and spending problems.

This has NOTHING to do with wages or taxes and EVERYTHING to do with ignoring the cost side of the balance sheet. Spending well beyond what they take in.

Only a socialist would argue the wage/tax argument, while FULLY ignoring the Cost side of the balance sheet and over 100 years of totally f'd-up economic/monetary policies that has lead that country into the toilet for well over a century!

 

The slackers are the ones that can't or won't pay their bills.

 

slack·er/ˈslakər/Noun
1. A person who avoids work or effort.

Nothing to do with debts, the greeks work hard and for long hours.

 

So what's it gotten them? Seems to me those hours of hard work aren't helping much are they?

 

you are very correct, SiliconMagician.

Especially when you say, "I say give these protestors what they want. I say pull out the IMF money, kick greece out of the EU and leave these commies and socialists to starve to death in thier utopia, because that is exactly what would happen in Greece if these people got their way."

"Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean — power over people, power to the State."

-- Margaret Thatcher

Socialism is great if you are willing to accept a much reduced standard of living and an oppressive central government who is always telling you what to do and how to live your life to the benefit of the state!

^

......

"Official seal of certifiable truth" A failed relic of the past! How many millions of people did Joseph Stalin have to slaughter to force people to accept the foolish and discredited teachings of Marx and Engels?

 

Who told you life was fair and hard work was a guarantee of success??

 

Greece spends about $12.6 billion on their military, which is about 4% of their GDP.

Even if they completely disband their military they will still be about $25 billion short.

 

You did, just now. Aside from that, nobody. Life's not fair and Greece will pay the price. Stupid rewards itself, and their social policies were stupid, now we see the reward.

 

Ergo, if you take in less, you get bigger deficits! Simple.

EPIC FAIL!