U.S. Gun Laws and Violence in Mexico

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Boredkid, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. Boredkid

    Boredkid New Member

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    In a recent working paper, Dube, Dube, and Garcia-Ponce (2011) find that the expiration of a federal assault weapons ban in 2004 in the US "caused at least 158 additional deaths each year in the post-2004 period". Their "findings suggest that U.S. gun laws have exerted an unanticipated spillover on gun supply in Mexico, and this increase in gun supply has contributed to rising violence south of the border." Furthermore, such effects remain when related enforcement, drug trade, and economic variables are controlled.

    So what implications might this have for US policy towards the Mexican drug cartels, and gun control in general? Is this enough evidence to reinstate federal bans on assault weapons, or at least for better controls on them?
     
  2. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    What are "assault weapons"?

    Why is Mexico's drug problem a problem that would justify the restriction of American's rights?

    Why would a drug cartel buy a semi-automatic sporting rifle when they can buy automatic weapons from other sources?
     
  3. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Because the Cartel Shade Tree Gunsmiths can convert said semi-Auto versions to full auto (And thus save big Money over higher prices of Full Auto variants) And Gunrunner was a potent plan at the time to hasten the erosion of 2A in El Norte .
     
  4. Boredkid

    Boredkid New Member

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    Regarding this study, they are those weapons banned under the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.

    If US gun policy has a substantial positive impact on Mexican homicides, surely that is justification.

    I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here... If US assault weapons are across the border and easily available, why would the cartels go elsewhere?
     
  5. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Cartels & their Henchmen armorers & Procurers are familure with & enjoy the performance of European & Former Combloc Weapons and Chinese & various other countries Battle rifles (Especially Belgium & Germany & Switzerland)
     
  6. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    Why not use the language of the more recent AWB proposals? Why not all semi-automatics with detachable magazines or military/police background? You are using a phrase that does not have a rigid definition.

    It won't.

    I am getting at the obvious, your so called "assault weapons" are semi-automatic sporting rifles. Why would the drug cartel get sporting rifles if they can just as easily get automatic weapons from other sources? They may be getting their sporting rifles from the US, however they are not getting their machine guns, grenades, explosives, or RPG's from the US. The further restriction of semi-automatics is not going to impact the crime in Mexico.

    It is a silly notion.

    The violence is the result of cracking down on the drug cartels, not the result of guns in American. There is absolutely no reason to believe that powerful cartels will somehow be hampered by the gun control laws one country over. Want to stop guns from going over? Control the border. Problem solved.
     
  7. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    There is that and they are getting their weapons from other countries.

    Or military desertions.
     
  8. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    I agree ,the Democrats & Gun Grabbin left should immediantly begin a zeitgeist for AWB 2 & complete Semi-Auto Rifle ban on a national Federal level (with British/aussie type manditory turn in program with teeth in the enforcement )
     
  9. Boredkid

    Boredkid New Member

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    Danct and (deleted member) like this.
  10. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    AR pattern rifles are the most common " Sporting Rifles' sold over last 6 years By a large % . ( Please lobby your Democrat Reps & Senators to begin votes on an AWB 2 & NEW Federal Firearms Restrictions ):twisted:
     
  11. Boredkid

    Boredkid New Member

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    And yet in 2006 90% of confiscated guns can be traced back the US, a proportion that rose from 2004 after the expiration of the assault weapons ban.
     
  12. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Those are gungrabbers stats (Like getting your stats from Huffpo or Politico)
     
  13. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    75% of the Originally configured Full Auto weapons in Mexico Cartel hands are Non-AR pattern Com Block & European weapons from South America & various other Governments , Full auto Weapons in private hands in America are extreamly scarce & harder to obtain than a Liquer Liscense and our Military Weapons in full auto configuration that were Sold/given to Mexico Government & Military make up most of the Numbers of the Cartels aquisistions of those type firearms.
     
  14. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    The US sells weapons to the Mexican military.

    "Made in the USA".

    Your argument is ignoring key points in the reality of the situation. Correlation does not equal causation.
     
  15. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    Which is odd, because that is not the definition used for the more modern AWB proposals.

    I would like the author to be atleast a bit honest as to how the weapons arrive there. Military desertions shouldn't be included, but are they specifically excluded?

    Those are sporting rifles. There is difference between an AR and other semi-automatics, they are all sports.

    Hog hunting with the AR.
    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=hunt...tart=0&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0&tx=65&ty=62

    I am not denying the other factors, simply citing that it is a bit silly to believe that the cartels, who are already breaking the law in the US, would some how be hampered by gun control in the US,
     
  16. Boredkid

    Boredkid New Member

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    No, that's taken from a Government Accountability Office report. See page 20.
     
  17. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mexico is a moral sewer. Mexican gun laws forbid private ownership of any of these assault weapons. However the people and the government there are so corrupt that is does not matter what the law is.

    Most of the guns are coming in from the same corrupt and violent areas where the narcotics are coming from: Colombia, Honduras, El Salvador and so on.

    Liberal democrats, like the ones in the WH and DOJ are so prejudiced against guns they will often go to extreme lengths to demonize them. So we see the effects with the "FAst and Furious" program where we tried to take the heat off the Mexicans for their own problems by blaming our illegally exported guns.

    There is a concept, alien to the liberal/progressive world: Individual Accountibility. It's the person's fault, not the gun's.
     
  18. Boredkid

    Boredkid New Member

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    Though Mexican authorities don't confiscate weapons from their own military.

    Your comment is irrelevant, as the study examines the effect of the 1994 AWB.

    The authors were unable to receive a microdata set from the ATF, and thus had to rely on public-use files and piece together what they could from there. However, since the major army operations didn't begin until after the 2004-2006 period studied, desertion likely wasn't a major factor.

    Nonetheless, they are classified as assault weapons and are used in homicides.

    It's not silly at all. When guns become more easily available in the US, might trafficking increase? Of course. From there, we can observe whether homicides increase (controlling for other variables), which they did.
     
  19. Boredkid

    Boredkid New Member

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    There's no evidence that the guns are coming from those countries. See the GAO report I referenced above.

    And a concept usually alien to the right-winger -- that one's personal preferences and transactions can have harmful effects on uninvolved parties.
     
  20. xsited1

    xsited1 New Member

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    That's Mexico's problem. Next.
     
  21. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    The Military( No Import stamp) Full Auto AK/AKM pattern Rifles & European Military Battle Rifles sure as hell do originate from "Other Countries" .
     
  22. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    Nor can they easily track those weapons once they are gone.

    Which did not have an effect on the US, those weapons are not readily used in crimes. Very few when compared to say, handguns.

    It likely is. There is where a good portion of the automatic weapons, grenades, and other explosives originate from. Not from US gun stores.

    Um..... no they are not. I would suggest referring to the 1964 GCA and the use of the word "sporting purpose". They are sporting rifles, they are used for sporting purposes, they do not require special permitting like assault rifles, sub machine guns, etc.

    Whether or not they are used in homicides is irrelevant, all types of firearms, eventually, will be used in a homicide. Moot point.

    Actually, it is silly. You believe that increasing gun control in the states will some how prevent powerful drug cartels from obtaining weapons. Makes little sense when the border is porous.
     
  23. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Please let the Pro Democrat MSM go on a Zeitgeist for New Federal Firearms Restrictions luring the Liberal Far left House Members & Senators into a new push for New Federal Firearms Restrictions prior to the 12 Election ,Please please ...
     
  24. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Way to move the goalposts.

    Who was talking about full autos?
     
  25. Foghlai

    Foghlai New Member

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    Your statement is inaccurate. According to the report you cited, 90% of traced firearms that were seized in Mexico originated in the US. This does not mean all confiscated guns. This only means out of those guns that could be traced, 90% came from the US. And actually if you read the report, that number is 87%.
     

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