Libs....Why is Socialist Europe Bankrupt and Collapsing?

The European UNION is no more bankrup and collapsing than the United States. . .and they have only had about 20 years of working out the "Union!"
Many countries in that Union are stronger and healthier economically than the healthiest states in the US. . .but the "new countries" that have joined the European Unions are not, and have drained the stability of the core European Union.

What would happen if we looked at INDIVIDUAL STATES in the US?

This is why the data I provided (contrary to the one YOU provided) is a lot more effective and honest in looking at the problems WE face, versus the problems the European Union faces.


The European Union has a greater GDP than all the US states put together, and their average debt per capita and their debt as % of GDP is MUCH lower than the US debt per capita and debt per % of GDP.

And populations there have a good (almost too good, I'll give you that much) safety net that allows those country to continue to show economic growth, even with high unemployment rate.

But, you didn't answer my question. . .why did you SELECT the data you offered? Did you KNOW that it was outdated and unfair (like comparing apples and oranges) or did you just find out?

 

They did until you boys rolled back the safeguards. The SEC might as well be an airport gift store.

 

So the Republicans in the United States rolled backed the safeguards put in place by Socialist European Governments?

Did the Republicans in the United States also cause all of Europe's (D)ebt and (D)eficits?
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I didn't say Merkel etal weren't rolling back safeguards, too. But, as you've seen, Socialist Europe's debt and deficits aren't nearly as bad as our own. Iow, American 'capitalists' shouldn't be throwing stones at European 'socialists', especially when they don't have a leg to stand on. Dig?

 

This is such a silly debate.
First of all...Europe is not bankrupt.
In fact much of the EU has a higher credit rating than does the USA.
Gee...wonder how THAT happened...

But the real issue in here seems to be a debate about VALUES.
Those on the right...you know...those who claim to be "real Americans"...make the case that social programs are a waste of money and should be dismantled.
Those on the left...you know...those who claim to be "moral Americans"...make the case that a well funded social net is beneficial to society and should be expanded.

Both are wrong...and right...at the same time.
Social programs DO need a bit of an overhaul...in the States as well as Europe and Canada. But they are necessary and DO benefit the overall economy.

So...as with pretty much every thread in here...we have the left and the right arguing over something that any centerist has known for years.

Conga-Rats kids...you finally caught up...

 

EXACTLY

Like I said before nobody ever points out Northern Europe when they start criticizing "socialist Europe" and their economies, because it's tough to defend yourself when the most socially progressive nations in the region are also the most prosperous.

 

Yes please tell that to my country, last year our budget yielded a plus. We can currently take credits for -0.03% interest rate. This country would probably a socialist in your standard.

And be aware that European countries differ greatly in their policies and some are more left others tend to lean right.

The Problems that happend started in the 80's when the first regulations on the financial sector got thrown out (normal Banks could merge with highly speculative investment institutes). Especially in the anglo saxen area private debt became a driving factor of economic growth. The countries forgot that in kesyan economics they should recoup there losses while the economies were growing rapidly (until 200. Do not forget the economic policies in Europe were very similar to those in the US, basicly deregulation and lowering taxes.
Then the financial crisis hit 2008, countries that were already in high debt, needed to bail out financial institutes wit Billions, after that they kept the economy afloat with Billions and Billions Euros , while there revenue broke away. Basically the States in Europe pay for the failure of the private sector.

There are other factors and each state has his own history and slightly different reasons. For the austerity programms in different countries, those were initiated before the crisis hit them. During a crisis austerity programs do not really help, because they cause an even bigger dip in Income for the state, which negates the savings.

That'ss why when having high economic growth, you don't lower taxes, you raise them to balance the states household and repay debt. When crisis hit you have the wiggle room to lower taxes and throw in stimulus programs.

 

Their tax systems are corrupt where it is failing the worst. The countries where the majority of the population finds ways to avoid paying taxes are the ones who are dragging the others down.

 

Libs....Why is Socialist Europe Bankrupt and Collapsing?

Europe isn't socialist, bankrupt or collapsing. Any other drunken questions before you go home?

 

Lame thread since it starts of with false infortmation in the sense it's largely misrepresentative.

Anyone noticed that the US' "external" debt and her "sovereign debt" is the same?!

The graph means nothing, the only thing that matter is sovereign debt -- USA is $15 trillion in debt, and at the end of 2012 will tick of at 110% of debt vis-à-vis her GDP.

The average budget deficit of a Eurozone country is about 5% of GDP, USA's is about 10%.

Take Belgium for example, we have universal health care, free higher education, etc. -- and we have a budget deficit of 2,8% and we will have a balanced budget again by 2014, which is when we will start reducing our debt load again

We were well under way reducing our debt, until we had to bail out banks who were infected by bad American products and with a slowing economy thanks to American economic madness.



I'll take that American cheque anyday as a repayment for the damages they caused.

 

Yeah couldn't be the govt squandering billions on unsustainable social programs.

 

The common currency, the Euro, is widely reported as being on the brink of collapse. REad up.

 

Or preemptive wars and slashing tax revenues to protect billionaires.

 

I love the "slashing tax revenues...." nonsense. Libbies are ignorant in this arena because they act as if there is no other option for the corporations, other than to take whatever tax burden we give them. They can change their headquarters to whatever country gives them the best deal, then the United States gets exactly $0 in tax revenue from them.

 

That's part of it...but only part.

Tell me...when a record has a scratch and plays the same thing over and over...don't you get tired of it?

Government spending in the states is high...admittedly...so it the need based on population and so on.
Big business siphoning money to the top...along with government efforts to help this BTW...is also a major reason for our current economic crap.
So is partisan bickering and the resulting inaction in any direction...because ANYTHING would be better than stagnation.

Interestingly...Canada is in great shape...gee...does that mean regulation is a GOOD thing? Apparently...

People...and various marine life killers...lol...

THERE IS NO SINGLE REASON...AND THERE IS NO SINGLE SOLUTION!!!

Gawd until you Yankees learn to play TOGETHER in the sandbox...you're frigged! No matter who's in the Whitehouse.

Maybe THAT is the problem you should tackle?

 

Then explain why has prosperity fallen with corporate taxation rates. After that explain to me why countries with higher progressive tax rates are more successful than we are.

 

No actually...if you've been LISTENING...you'd know nobody is suggesting tax increases ALONE.

But...that would mean you'd actually have to try to understand the Democratic views and decide to work WITH them for the good of your nation...instead of constantly opposing them for the good of your party.

Wow...what a novel idea...the good of the country...gee...think that might work?

 

Noise Machine drivel, as you know. Can't have any rules to govern the City, can we?

 

Another semantic argument about "socialism", but I agree with you that people are set on breaking the discussion down into black and white terms of "socialism" versus "capitalism".

You are correct, the US is not doing any better than Europe. In reality, the US now shares a similar system to European countries which involves high measures of government interference in economic policy, a powerful central bank, high taxation, social programs that are not paid for, deficit financing, and unchecked corpratism.

It is neither capitalism or socialism and it is failing.

 

I think even you'd agree that a "bit of an overhaul" is different than dismantling. A "bit of an overhaul" is not something the right wing is interested in.

 

Here we go with the buzzwords again. The only thing you have to do to make those programs sustainable is PAY for them. Nothing is sustainable if you don't want to PAY for them. Dig?

 

Europeans pay much higher tax rates than we do in the USA.

 

Europeans pay much higher tax rates than we do in the USA.

 

How about a system where the banks and wall street have lobbyists and politicians allow them to game the entire world financial system. where lobbyists geld all oversight and make illegal activity legal or not covered, where the SEC, the watchdog is actually HELPING with this malfeasance.
Imagine a system where the Gamblers under insure, make billions on writing bad loans and speculating in unbacked securities and such theft is LEGAL.
Imagine when you collapse the economies of the world and no One goes to jail and you, the bankers get to dictate the terms of New loans paid for by draconian cuts in services. YOU get bailed on taxpayers for the Ponzy scheme and its the peoples obligation.

One of the heads of Spain said on the BBC yesterday he was tired of hearing its the governments fault since they had four years in a row in the black BEFORE the economic Tsunami. One of the heads of Italy was seen crying as she read the cuts. We have a financial class that writes their own laws and chooses to ignore any when inconvenient and you want to play the Socialism card.
Read this and see what you feel.http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/is-the-sec-covering-up-wall-street-crimes-20110817

 

Funny thing about that...

Our social programs were doing JUST fine until the Republicans took over the White House and Congress at the same time. In fact, in 2001, the CBO estimated that we would pay off most of the public debt by 2006. But then the Republicans and their "starve the beast" agenda kicked in. Two expensive and long-term wars and gutted revenue later and here we are facing a 14 trillion dollar debt.

Funny how the right fails to mention that every time.