Challenge "the quran"

You can't possibly challange anything that is "faith-based". There would be no winners or losers, only angry religious people. God is God by many names. Pick your own.

 

i see you talk and comment.
but nothing changes.

you are a big balloon filled with prejudice,
waiting for me to push the needle.

you have no idea what this ayah is.
and probably you won't.

but it has nothing to do "triple god pantheon" or "sun deities".
that's for sure.

this copy-paste literature amazes me.
how ignorant people are...

they go and search these tiny little pieces of information
from an anti-islamic website then paste it here as their
own opinions. and stick with it like their own inventions.

borrowed theories against knowledge.
bunch of lies and bias against truth.

first,
have your own opinion.
then you deserve an answer.

and stop that davinci code language will you?
it looks funny.

"decipher the truth"

the suspense is killing us...

not all eyes are meant to see his art.
you believe what you want to believe.

be well.

 

Yeah you can believe whatever. But is just that a belief. And a belief does not have any validity for anything.

A belief can be a beginning for something else. For advancing in finding a solution, or whatever. Yoiu need to have some belief, but is just that. Not a fact, not an end. A belief is a way to improve yourself.

But believe in something superior is making yourself a slave. Believe what says a book without questioning in any way, is just becoming closed mind and an slave psichologically talking. You don't have real freedom. But that is other topic.

 

Excellent!, that is what knowledge and intelligence means

If only Mohammed had listen and follow Gabriel's advice then things would have been better for him;

If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. (Sura 10:94)

 

I really don't understand such devoutness (The writer must be a very loyal and obedient follower indeed). I wonder if he/she realizes the criteria "free of error" and the conclusion "true" is circular and therefore meaningless (Or at least redundant).

Islam/Christianity/Judaism. The Big Three. Whatever your vise, it will most likely be replaced with the new philosophy long after we are gone. Just as the countless Gods of books we now call mythology have been.

 

Response: Once again, we see you dodge the challenge. Instead, you say that the challenge has been answered. But when asked of what proof, your answer would be "because a book says so", which any reasonable person can see us not proof. For saying so us not proof that it is so. Your logic fails. Furthermore, it is hypocrisy, for if I were to say that Muhammad performed miracles with evidence from the qur'an and scholars, you would denounce it as fictional hearsay,because saying that it's true because a book says so is false logic. So basing your evidence on the same logic makes your evidence hypocritical and false as well. Debunked. Furthermore, the challenge itself provides a hands on eyewitness account as evidence that such an act is impossible. So using the logic of fictional hearsay does not hold up to an eyewitness account. Your alleged evidence is debunked.

 

Response: To the contrary, the challenge presented in the OP provides a hands on eyewitness account that the spread of islam by Muhammad by using the qur'an is a miracle, while your dodging to answer that challenge only confirms your denial to the fact.Otherwise, you would have answered the challenge.

 

Response: To the contrary, the very definition of true is without error,thus your logic fails and makes no sense.

 

the consistency is one of the signatures of the creator Allah.
look around you, follow the pattern.
you will find the same things in the qur'an.

if you are not sincere about this and keep being
obsessed with the idea of forensic evidence, you
won't go beyond yourself.

that's a friendly advice:
be open to things.
don't rush to conclusions.
they're there.
you will get to them.
know more.
read more.

don't be like this guy here:

you see.
for instance, this person does not wanna learn.
that is why his mind is blocked with
the same borrowed made up theories.

he will copy and paste those things he found on a
random webpage just to feel to be "right".

he will take small bits and pieces of information and
adjust it to his poorly prepared cases.

he will rely on the tv and on the internet for his views about
the rest of the world.

we call this kind of people 'delusive personas'.
or 'slaves of mass media'.

don't come anything near this.
stand strong and base your thoughts on actual knowledge.
always.

qur'an(17:36)
And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge.
Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those [one]
will be questioned.​

check this post here.
it might help to see my point of view.

 

No. It is not a miracle.

Give to the people education. And let's see how many people follow the qur'an. Just the circunstances given were the perfect to spread the Islam in that areas. No more than that.

And also the spread was made by the use of violence to force it into the people.

Like other people said you. There are many other ideologies things that has been spread just with a book.

 

The spiritual concepts may be as old as man..

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...y-timeless-spiritual-concept.html#post4957690

 

Response: Another statemen, with no proof. Thus you've done nothing but debunk yourself. Furthermore, the challenege itself provides a hands-on eyewitness account to the fact that it is a miracle, while your ducking and dodging to answer the challenge confirms your denial to the fact. And since the challenge is proven hands on, then those "other people" that you mention who say the same are simply deluded and using them as reference only makes you look the same. Saying so is not proof that it is so. You have sayings and hearsay as evidence. i have an hands on eyewitness account as evidence. So your evidence is weak. Thus the challenge that proves that the qur'an is the true word of Allah is still valid.

 

No. If you force into people something, people will follow that. And that is what has been done with islamism. The same with christianism.

But how you can see, when people has started to be educated and free they have abandoned christianism because is nonsense, absurd things, pure fantasy the same as the Qur'an.

The only merit of the Qur'an is keep the people uneducated and misinformed. That is the only merit of the Qur'an and Islamism. No miracles. The miracles do not exist.

 

Gotta love the exchange in here:

- It's a miracle.
- No, it's not a miracle.
- Another statement with no proof.

 

It is impossible to discuss religion with proofs. Because is just imagination and beliefs.

And that are the things. But the spread of the Qur'an has an easy explanation: Imposition of this like the spread of Christianism and the not knowing of anything else. When you know other options you abandon the fairy tales for adults.

 

Response: Another statement, with no proof. Thus once again, proving nothing. Yet the challenge provides a hands-on eyewitness account that the spread of islam by Muhammad (saw) was miraculous, while your evidence is just sayings and hearsay, thus proving nothing. Thus the chalenge that proves that the Qur'an is the true word of Allah still stands.

 

Response: Gotta love the ducking and dodging here.

-Prove that the Qur'an is the true word of Allah
- the answer is in the challenge
-oh, noo the muslims actually have scientific proof...gotta go.

 

great post

idiots believe and willingly false witness 'the miracle'

and the honest (with themselves and others) will not witness what is a lie



A per se "miracle' to an idiot could be as simple as conveying information over the air ways, with electronics.

Fact is, a doctor of medicine is more educated than a preacher for business of saving lives.

 

start here: the linguistic miracle of the qur'an.
then we'l get to the other parts.

 

In other words Sura 10:94 Is not a Quranic verse that was made available in the internet? and that is It also one of those corrupted verses? "If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt".

Instead of being a typical Muslims that always blame us for your own lack of knowledge why don't you explain and respond to it with reasons so that people like me can fully understand as you said I kept mis-quoting the Quran so please explain it to me in your own way.

So far my understanding of that verse is that Jibril is advising Mohammed to ask or consult those people who have read the book and since the only books available are the Bible and or the Torah this mean those books are not corrupted, that is what Jibril is referring to in order to settle Mohammed's doubt. And by the way why would Mohammed be in doubt again??

And then consider Sura 10:37 And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds.

Again, confirming or contradicting itself that the Quran originated from "before" that before is the Bible because there is no other documents available other than the Bible,

Mohammed claim the Bible to be corrupted, so why use the Bible as a reference if it is corrupted? What other documents were available to mankind before the Quran?

 

explain what is a typical muslim.
and i will give you an answer.

 

A typical Muslim:
1. Always recite the Quran when face with difficult questions, which makes the discussion more complicated and goes no where
2. Always label Christians and none Muslims as anti Muslim or Islamophobic because we ask questions about Islam
3. Always blames the Christians, Jews or the West for Muslim problems
4. Get's hostile very easily
5. Everything is self defence for them, as if singing the same tune as the Muslim radicals
6. Like to proselytize to Westerners and Christians about how peaceful Islam is but does not want to proselytize to the radicals to make them a more peaceful Muslim.
7. Very resistant in discussing an honest textual contents, research and history about their books the Quran and the Hadith and the history and origin of Islam.

 

poorly constructed stereotypes
and a narrow minded approach to people.
it almost made me sad.

to generalize is to be an idiot.
william blake​

although i agree with blake.
i don't like the way he puts it.

no, you are not an idiot.
but generalization is "generally" for idiots.
people who generalize thing are slaves of their
own egoistical ignorance.

so my suggestion is: don't blur your thoughts with stereotypes.

on the other hand;
if christians are so honest and open to discussion.
why the flames here?
http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/223972-contradictions-bible.html

not one came out and said:
"listen it's a man written book, it was altered we know that.
everyone knows that. it has contradictions, yes.
but it was originally from God and the condition of those
scriptures doesn't change our faith, we still believe in jesus."

ok then no problem...
you admit that the book is not consistent.
but you choose to believe. ok then.

no one speaks the truth.
they hide behind their ignorance.
is this how we should debate?

then you comment about a religion that you have literally no idea.
believe me you don't know islam. and you attacking it won't make
it easy for you to understand.

most of the christians don't even know their own religion.
maybe most of the muslims don't too...

but most of the christians eat pork.
most of the christians drink alcohol.
most of the christians are not circumcised.

now i want you to go and tell me why...
go to your bible and sort out verses that prohibits
pork and alcohol. and tell me: wasn't jesus (pbuh) circumcised himself?

a muslim follows jesus (pbuh) better than a christian.

people will keep assuming, supposing and putting people
in the little boxes that they have in their mind under the
"critical thinking" category.

muslims here...
christians there...
ok mohawks might be in here...
french people definitely over there...

this is he problem with most of the people here.
they think and suppose based on their limited life experience.

their truth is their truth because it's simply it is.
they actually never rely on facts.

we say we base our life on the qur'an then the sunnah.
but when we give examples from the qur'an they are not valid?

that's where the collision starts.
you don't accept the first evidence of that belief.
that those people base their belief on.
"the only book" that says how to act, how to believe, how to live.

but it's not a proof because...
you don't believe in the qur'an?

it is truely not our problem you see?
you must first understand that in order to understand muslims,
you must respect their belief in the qur'an. and to understand
how and why they act you must rely on the qur'an.

you are not hesitant citing verses of the qur'an when you attack.
but when a muslim defends the same way.

"oh no no please let's be civilized"

to us it is the unchanged word of Allah.
we testify and live accordingly.

why the bible has contradictions and qur'an doesn't?
it is scientifically and historically proved many times.
by the people who has some sort of unbiased reasoning.

you not knowing them is merely a major concern to yourself.
for you are responsible for your own education.
someone else can only show you the way.

example:
search maurice bucaille.
about haman in the qur'an.

have you read the link above?
no. because it was too long.

you come from a tradition where you don't rely on proof
for your faith. you rely on your thoughts, traditions and hearsay.
because you don't have a reliable scripture.

in islam, we do rely on consistency.
thoughts are both influenced by good and evil forces.
so you must take a position in every-single-thing you do in your life.

not just on "sundays".
but in everything you do.
you take the guidance from Allah.
you seek the truth all the time.

when you smile, when you say hi, when you eat, when you pray.
all day long, 24/7...

that's why you won't hear muslims say "in my opinion..." very often.

that you cannot understand.
because you "think" you know.
but we turn to "the source" for information.

be well.

 

as i promised:

10:37
And it was not [possible] for this Qur'an to be produced by other than Allah,
but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of
the [former] Scripture, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.​

so qur'an approves and corrects the scriptures that has come before.
because they have been altered.
because they still contain partial truth in them.

the surah you mention here (a very rough translation):

10:94
So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have
revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture
before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so
never be among the doubters.​

qur'an specifically states that muhammed (saw) has been foretold
in the injeel and tawraat. the people of the book knew him like they
knew their own child. so: "ask to the people of the book, for they know
what's going on but they don't wanna go through with it".

in this ayah,
the aim is to stress that the jewish learned men / scholars in fact knew
-and they still know- the prophethood of muhammed (saw) very well.
the verse otherwise is not questioning the "doubts" of the prophet (saw).
and that he should check on them.

you must look back in the jewish history

a) to see why they could not accept the prophethood of muhammed (saw).
b) and what were they doing in arabia, waiting what?

rasulullah (saw) is never in doubt about the revelation of Allah.
because he is a prophet. you must understand arabic and look at the
original text to understand the linugistic play here.

example:
"if you are my son, then you wouldn't do this".
in this statement father is not questioning if his son in fact his son.
it only enforces the meaning "you will not do this."

i'm in a hurry. must go out.
ask questions if you have any.

but do research too.
at least read the whole chapter 10.

http://quran.com/10

and also some reasoning is required...

if qur'an is a man made book.
that's the claim correct? muhammed (saw) copied it from
the bible (and the torah)... nauzubillah.

if it is copied from the torah and the bible.
why would someone go ahead and say it?
why admit it? (according to you)
isn't that supposed to be hidden?
wouldn't you contradict yourself and loose followers?

that must in fact be the only thing you must avoid.
never tell them that it is copied.

now the thinking starts:
maybe it is not copied?
maybe it's a true revelation and is correcting older scriptures.
and calling all the people of the book to the truth...
and maybe, the source is Allah (your God and mine) and revealing
the final book to his prophet (saw).

aaand now the denying starts:
on your next post.

be well.

 

Marxism was spread around all the world. That is miraculous. That prove that the Marxism is right. Furthermore how Marxism opposes religion and Marxism is right, then all religions are wrong and just are nonsense.

Nonsense are nonsense. And arguments like the yours is stupid. There is no logic. And you don't provide any proof of your argumentation. And you won't.