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Originally Posted by sam";p="
“Making a positive assertion about something for which you have no positive knowledge” is a wonderful definition for “faith” and it is the only way you will ever receive proof that God exists.
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It's called faith because there is no proof. I'm fine with that. I'll even accept that it may be a personal limitation that I require proof. But I do.
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Originally Posted by raytri";p="
From my understanding of the Bible, God seems to get ticked off by people asking Him to perform miracles.
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I'm not asking him to do anything. I'm simply stating that until he does, I will have difficulty believing that he exists.
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This makes sense to me, because God does not need to prove Himself to anyone.
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Sure. But then I wouldn't expect him to expect me to worship him.
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If you think it through, for people to expect miracles from God just so they can have proof He exists is pretty presumptuous and arrogant. Actually, it is clear in the Bible that people must make the first move when it comes to establishing a relationship with God.
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Then why was he so free with the miracles and communication 4,000 years ago? What changed?
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You obviously are extremely intelligent and I get the feeling that you think by accepting on faith that there is a God, your intelligence will somehow be diminished. If other people think you are less intelligent because you have faith, oh well - that’s part of humbling yourself before God.
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That's never been my concern, especially in a country where 70% or more of people are regular churchgoers.
My agnosticism is a purely personal decision.
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As far as which faith is correct, I believe that Judaism is correct; unfortunately, many Jews failed to recognize their Messiah.
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But I'm sure the adherents of every religion believe their religion to be the correct one. From where I sit, your religion has no greater claim to validity than any other. Although if you define God simply as "whatever got the ball of existence rolling", then I'm probably more inclined toward monotheism than polytheism.
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As far as Islam is concerned, at it’s very core is the belief that non-Muslims must either be converted or destroyed and that the god of Islam fooled people into believing that Jesus had been crucified. These should be major red flags.
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To me that just makes modern Islam resemble medieval Christianity.
I've suggested before that Islam -- the youngest of the major monotheistic faiths -- is going through the same adolescent growing pains that once convulsed Christianity and, before that, Judaism.
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The experience of getting closer to God is difficult to describe without a common frame of reference.
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I understand, and I respect that. You obviously believe very strongly, and that's your right. I don't think less of you because of it. I don't think you "weak-minded" or anything simply because you believe. I freely recognize, for instance, that God may have spoken to you but not to me. In such a case, you would be strongly convinced of his existence, while I would not be.
I just dispute the notion that my stance reveals me to be "weak minded".
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You are so close to receiving the personal anecdotal evidence you seek, but proving the existence of God is a Catch 22, because in order for you to receive proof that God exists you first must believe that God exists.
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You're correct to describe that as a Catch 22. Or as a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe someday such an approach will appeal to me; 12thMan seems to think I'll see the light in the next few years. For now, though, I cannot in good conscience believe in (and more importantly, worship) something I cannot verify.