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Old 03-24-2004, 06:56 AM
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Default Common sense yes, but legally...

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-R-O-G";p=&quot View Post
that argument is ridiculous we all need others to survive, does that mean i'm not alive? and what about 2 year olds if there not taken care of they will die too does that make them dead or at least "not alive"? (BTW your either dead or alive, theres no in between) they will die if there not taken care of. and what about the mentally handicap they need help just to swallow does that mean there dead?

yes the mother should take care of the fetus just like she should take care of her child, cuz it is her child![/code]
Help from others, but not from one specific individual. In this case before birth the fetus can only live off the mother. A two year old can be taken care of by anyone, not just only her biological mother (orphans).

The words "without direct support" are poor word choice on my behalf but it is hard to explain what I mean exactly. Essential and untransferrable support, might be closer to what I mean but then the sentence would become clumsy. I didn't call it dead either, it is alive but only as long as it can live off the mother. A sort of parasitic relationship, not quite but sort of.

I said earlier nurturing is a different thing. A fully formed and completed human, prepared by nature to gain its first self-sufficiency (breathing). At birth babies are forced to breathe for themselves, becoming at least slightly self-sufficienct, more and more so as they grow older. I believe this self-sufficiency is the dividing line. Besides the decision to abort a fetus has to come rather early in the pregnancy to be safely done, much before this line becomes blurry.

About the dead or alive thing, what about the brain dead? I wouldn't call them living. This is not a logical argument of !alive = dead, there is a middle ground.

To reitarate: Once even the slightest degree of self-sufficiency has been attained one becomes truly alive. We are debating the legality of abortion, not the common sense behind it. This is slowly straying off topic. Make it legal.
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