View Poll Results: What was it?

Voters
2. You may not vote on this poll
  • the most secular liberal state in Europe ?

    1 50.00%
  • bunch of the apartheid regimes?(most of the time)

    1 50.00%
+ Reply to Thread
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24

Thread: TheMuslim rule of Spain?the most secular liberal state in Europe or apartheid regime?

  1. #1
    Location: Sweden/Magnus Ducatus Lituaniae
    Posts: 15,074
    Blog Entries: 5
    My Latest Mood: Cool

    Default The Muslim rule of Spain?the most secular liberal state in Europe or the apartheid?

    The Muslim rule of Spain?the most secular liberal state in Europe or a bunch of the apartheid regimes?
    1
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxMi5gh7wrc&feature=re lated"]Al-Andalus : Alhambra Palace قصر ال(*)مراء - YouTube[/ame]

    2
    The mosque at Cordoba was built on the site of a church

    Miss Armstrong can look after herself in her row with the critic of Islam, Robert Spencer.

    But I must say I was annoyed by another claim she made in her review of Spencer's book. This is something one hears all the time. "In Muslim Spain," she wrote, "relations between the three religions of Abraham were uniquely harmonious in medieval Europe."

    This is simply not true. The centuries between the Muslim invasion of Spain in 711 and the reconquest of their last enclave in 1492 were characterised by warfare, double-dealing, opportunist alliances, expropriation, punitive taxation and persecution.

    The nearest that Islamic Spain got to a peace-loving polity was the Caliphate of Cordoba, which existed between 929 and 1031, just over 100 years out of more than 700 years of occupation.

    Its political status rested on dubious ground, for its founder claimed to be Caliph of the whole world from his stronghold in Spain, when there was already a Caliph in Baghdad. The Fatimids in North Africa also claimed the Caliphate in rivalry to Cordoba.

    The mosque at Cordoba, that great beauty of world architecture, was built on the site of the church of St Vincent, demolished to make way for it. In the early years after the Muslim invasion, Christians had been allowed to worship in part of the cathedral site, all their other churches having been demolished at the conquest. But under the Ummayyads, the founders of the Caliphate of Cordoba, the Christians had to relinquish their part of St Vincent's.

    Under the Caliphate of Cordoba, it was not just the Christians of northern Spain who fought to gain territory. The 10th-century de facto ruler of the caliphate, al-Mansur, fought expansionist wars, sacking Barcelona in 985 and Santiago in 997. He had already defeated his father-in-law in battle, with Muslims and Christians fighting on both sides. That is unique harmony of a sort.

    After the collapse of the Caliphate in civil war, things got no better. There is a statue in Cordoba to Moses Maimonides, the great Jewish philosopher. But Maimonides and his family had to flee Spain to escape persecution by the ruling Muslim dynasty.

    The 12th-century Muslim thinker, Ibn-Rushd, known as Averroes to Christian philosophers, who took him very seriously, was also banished from the Spanish peninsula by the intolerant Almohad rulers.

    I suppose if you had to choose which Muslim regime to live under in the Middle Ages, the Caliphate of Cordoba would be a good choice, but let's not pretend it was a secular liberal state.
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture...rule_of_Spain/

    we talk here about the whole Europe(Lisbon-Ural mountains) not just the about Franks.
    Last edited by litwin; Nov 05 2011 at 08:28 AM.
    Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Rus' and Samogitia or Nothing
    -----
    Yetzerhara: "Litwin you have become preoccupied with baiting the Russian Putin groupies on this forum."

  2. Prosper.com, finance, financial, investing, lending, borrowing, banking, credit card, payday, borrowers, lenders, debt consolidation, Prosper, investment, personal loans, personal loan, investors, investment opportunities, debt consolidation

  3. Default

    well... compared with with what happened after the Emirate of Granada was finally taken out.... or what happened in Sicily after the HRE took over etc...

    We could look from the more simplistic aspect of folks voting with their feet and lives, Andalusia was almost unarguablly the most populated region in early half medieval period. it's population as a share of the area decreased dramatically over the later half of the period. part of it was of course otehr areas growing (espeically France) but a large part is also because the area's population declined rapidly during and after the Reconquista.

    It is easy to focus on some particular aspect of any medieval state and claim it as barbaric, but a more realistic view should generally involve a comparason with it's comtemporary.

    Though it should be noted, that the Christian Kingdoms of Spain in this period was also considerablly more ... tolerant so to speak, as the reconquista escalated both sides became increasingly less so, that the Andalusians were forced to ask the Tribal armies of Northen Africa such as the Almoravids and Almohads come in was one of the big turning points of the era.

  4. #3
    Location: Sweden/Magnus Ducatus Lituaniae
    Posts: 15,074
    Blog Entries: 5
    My Latest Mood: Cool

    Icon3

    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    well... compared with with what happened after the Emirate of Granada was finally taken out.... or what happened in Sicily after the HRE took over etc...

    We could look from the more simplistic aspect of folks voting with their feet and lives, Andalusia was almost unarguablly the most populated region in early half medieval period. it's population as a share of the area decreased dramatically over the later half of the period. part of it was of course otehr areas growing (espeically France) but a large part is also because the area's population declined rapidly during and after the Reconquista.

    It is easy to focus on some particular aspect of any medieval state and claim it as barbaric, but a more realistic view should generally involve a comparason with it's comtemporary.

    Though it should be noted, that the Christian Kingdoms of Spain in this period was also considerablly more ... tolerant so to speak, as the reconquista escalated both sides became increasingly less so, that the Andalusians were forced to ask the Tribal armies of Northen Africa such as the Almoravids and Almohads come in was one of the big turning points of the era.
    you sources please, was Andalusia more populated then the "big Constantinople" aria?
    Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Rus' and Samogitia or Nothing
    -----
    Yetzerhara: "Litwin you have become preoccupied with baiting the Russian Putin groupies on this forum."

  5. Default

    I live in Portugal and I had to study all of this about the muslim rule.
    What I can say is that they developed our countries and if it wasnt them the discoveries wouldnt be possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconMagician View Post
    I believe that Jews have a right to separate themselves completely from their arab neighbors into a state that is eternally majority Jewish and if it takes "ethnic cleansing" to keep it that way then so be it.

  6. #5
    Location: Sweden/Magnus Ducatus Lituaniae
    Posts: 15,074
    Blog Entries: 5
    My Latest Mood: Cool

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flag View Post
    I live in Portugal and I had to study all of this about the muslim rule.
    What I can say is that they developed our countries and if it wasnt them the discoveries wouldnt be possible.
    Portugal discoveries maybe, Hollands and English/Frances discoveries would be more possible
    Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Rus' and Samogitia or Nothing
    -----
    Yetzerhara: "Litwin you have become preoccupied with baiting the Russian Putin groupies on this forum."

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by litwin View Post
    Portugal discoveries maybe, Hollands and English/Frances discoveries would be more possible
    Knowing that England and France followed Portugal and Spain and Dutch policy was first based on stealing from Portugal and Spain as well as the english one was also based on stealing from others.
    The arabs gave an interesting contribute to the discovery age.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconMagician View Post
    I believe that Jews have a right to separate themselves completely from their arab neighbors into a state that is eternally majority Jewish and if it takes "ethnic cleansing" to keep it that way then so be it.

  8. #7
    Location: Sweden/Magnus Ducatus Lituaniae
    Posts: 15,074
    Blog Entries: 5
    My Latest Mood: Cool

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flag View Post
    Knowing that England and France followed Portugal and Spain and Dutch policy was first based on stealing from Portugal and Spain as well as the english one was also based on stealing from others.
    The arabs gave an interesting contribute to the discovery age.
    no, you are wrong here. if it were not Castile it would be an other European state for Christopher Columbus. dont forget That Denmark has its colonies in Greenland an they knew perfectly about the new world
    Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Rus' and Samogitia or Nothing
    -----
    Yetzerhara: "Litwin you have become preoccupied with baiting the Russian Putin groupies on this forum."

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by litwin View Post
    no, you are wrong here. if it were not Castile it would be an other European state for Christopher Columbus. dont forget That Denmark has its colonies in Greenland an they knew perfectly about the new world
    Age of discoveries werent just America.
    When Colombus got there the portuguese were already settling in Africa. In fact Colombus tried to get support from the portuguese king John II.

    Back to the muslim rule again.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconMagician View Post
    I believe that Jews have a right to separate themselves completely from their arab neighbors into a state that is eternally majority Jewish and if it takes "ethnic cleansing" to keep it that way then so be it.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by litwin View Post
    no, you are wrong here. if it were not Castile it would be an other European state for Christopher Columbus. dont forget That Denmark has its colonies in Greenland an they knew perfectly about the new world
    Age of discoveries werent just America.
    When Colombus got there the portuguese were already settling in Africa. In fact Colombus tried to get support from the portuguese king John II.

    Back to the muslim rule again.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconMagician View Post
    I believe that Jews have a right to separate themselves completely from their arab neighbors into a state that is eternally majority Jewish and if it takes "ethnic cleansing" to keep it that way then so be it.

  11. #10
    Location: Sweden/Magnus Ducatus Lituaniae
    Posts: 15,074
    Blog Entries: 5
    My Latest Mood: Cool

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flag View Post
    Age of discoveries werent just America.
    When Colombus got there the portuguese were already settling in Africa. In fact Colombus tried to get support from the portuguese king John II.

    Back to the muslim rule again.
    and they went far much deeper and longer then Arabs did whole the way form Lisbon to Calcutta
    Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Rus' and Samogitia or Nothing
    -----
    Yetzerhara: "Litwin you have become preoccupied with baiting the Russian Putin groupies on this forum."

+ Reply to Thread
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The solution is one secular state
    By Liberal Saudi in forum Middle East
    Replies: 135
    Last Post: Oct 04 2011, 02:03 AM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: Sep 17 2011, 11:58 PM
  3. Islamic apartheid Sharia in Germany threatens secular legal system
    By DutchClogCyborg in forum Latest US & World News
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Sep 11 2011, 07:22 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks