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Old 02-19-2008, 08:18 PM
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Sharon Tate Sharon Tate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
How did you determine that?
Because in a first trimester abortion, the fetuses brain has not developed enough to enable it to feel pain, or to even sense fear. It is unaware, meaning it does not think, feel, has no idea where it is, or even that it exists. Later on, when the fetus starts to develop nerves which will enable it to feel pain, the fetus is anethetised - a drug is given to the mother, which then passes to the fetus. In a sense, the fetus is put to sleep, much like a general anesthetic. In a third trimester abortion, the fetus is often euthanased in the womb, and the abortion is simply a means of extracting it. The fetus never feels pain - no woman would have an abortion if she knew her unborn child (whether she wanted the baby or not) would feel the slightest pain. I would even have a hard time coming to a decision if I knew that my unborn child would feel pain when it was aborted.
Whether the mother wants the baby or not, it is still her child, and no mother wants their child, born or unborn, to suffer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
Please post your evidence that a fetus is incapable of feeling pain.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/294/8/947

Fetal pain is unlikely before the seventh month.

http://www.abortionfacts.com/fetal_d...fetal_pain.asp

The above site is a pro life website, which claims the fetus can feel pain at just eight weeks. They claim to have 'medical' proof that this is so. It is impossible for them to claim an eight week old fetus feels pain, unless they have experimented on the fetus, which they have not, which is why I have provided the first website for your viewing. The opinions stated on this site are the most common among health professionals - I cannot rely on pro life websites for accurate information, but if you wish to, that is fine by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
It matters in this context, because you are claiming you do not consider it an object.
It does not matter. It matters not what the fetus has done, or what it hasn't done. The point of the arguement is that it is inside the womans body, using her body to nourish itself. The fetus is the property of the woman, as anything using your body to provide it's own nourishment must belong to you, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
So your only criteria for being a person is the ability to breathe independently?
I did not say that. Once a breath has been taken, the fetus is no longer a fetus, but a person. It could die five minutes later and it would still be a person - the only criteria is the taking of a single breath inorder to establish personhood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
If what you are saying is true, they are irrational to be concerned, since the fetus is just an object they own anyway.
No woman knows what to expect when she has an abortion. Perhaps she wonders whether she is doing the right thing. Perhaps she knows she cannot afford a child, and is not willing to gestate for nine months and go throught the agony of giving that child away? Perhaps she feels bad about what she is doing, even though she may know she is doing the right thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
Pedophiles claim the same thing when I try to stop them from having sex with children.
Peodophiles have nothing to do with abortion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
The law used to say that blacks were not people too. Things change.
Things do indeed change. There was once a time when a woman had no right to control her body, then the law changed. It is highly unlikely the law will change again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
So if they are hooked up to a respirator, they are no longer people?
One breath establishes personhood, that is all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
Ok. So anyone hooked up to a respirator is no longer a person. Got it.
I never said that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
When does it stop being free speech and start being abuse?
When women are harrassed by anti abortion protesters when they attempt to enter the clinic. No one has the right to shove a banner in my face with the image of an 'aborted' fetus on it - this is emotional harrassment, and should not be allowed. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but what happened to simply standing back and voicing your opinion in a way that could be deemed abusive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
I disagree.
You are welcome to disagree with me, just as I am welcome to disagree with you. Disagreement often happens in a debate such as this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
But you wouldnt...so why bring it up at all? You are advocating the right to abort for any reason or no reason at all. Correct?
While I may not agree with some the reasons women choose to abort, it is not my place to interefere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
How are they being twisted?
You do not seem to understand what I am saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
You made the claim that because the fetus is attached to the mother, the mother owns it. Conjoined twins are also attached to each other. So I am asking you which one owns the body.
None. They each own their own body, and they each own the others body. Each has their own body, and each is attached to another body, so technically, they own two bodies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
So sentience means nothing to you anyway with regards to what makes a person. So why did you bring it up?
Because being sentient doesn't make you a person - a sentient fetus can still be dependant upon the mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
So Conjoined twins are not people in your opinion. Ok.
Conjoined twins are people, but as to whether they are one person, or two, depends on type of conjoinment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
I am not the one killing a child for my own convenience. You openly admit the fetus is sentient, yet you still don't have a problem killing it.
I have never said a first trimester fetus was sentient. Even if was sentient, I have said it doesn't matter. For as long as it is inside the womans body, she has ultimate control over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
What constitutes abuse? If I call you a name I am abusing you?
No. But if you were to yell and scream and shout 'baby killer', and wave your banners in my face claiming I should burn in hell, that is abuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
Sure it is. At least in that context. There are no laws in the US preventing a woman from aborting a child because of Gender.
There are no laws here, eithor, as far as I know. I do not really know where I stand on the issue of gender selection. I don't agree with it, but I do think there may be certain reasons why women prefer one sex over the other. However, whether I may disagree or not, I have no right to tell another woman what she can and cannot do with her body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
Would you really have a problem with someone in the US aborting a child because it is the wrong gender?
Personally, yes. But as I said, perhaps there is a reason for wanting a child of a certain sex? I am not going to sit in judgement of another persons decision - their decision has nothing to do with me.
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