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[quote="DuH2";p="254369"]
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I am Communist but that doesnt mean I agree with the dictatorships that used Communism as a mask. I'll take Eugene Debs and George Orwell over Marx and Lenin any day of the week.
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Tehn your not a communist.or not a real world communist but more of a tecxt book communist..adn not even a textbook communist becasue you rejetc the father of communism teachings.
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To say that you know what Jefferson would or wouldnt do/think is nieve. The man is dead (Allah rest his soul) and we only have his written work to go off of. By this analysis its logic to say that Jefferson supported free speech.
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Yep and by his written work there is no way he would support a paper revealing secrets during a war. He would have considered them at best betrayers of the publics trust at worst traitors.
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The only BS I see is you and youre advocating that in times of war freedom is insignificant
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I advocated that?...BS I never advocated that. I advocate criminal charge for treason in war or betrayal of national secrest for nothign..the NYT uis guilty of that and their being a part of the press is NOT a get out of the crapper free card.
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I dont believe in this war or any war but I do believe that if the President, the leader of our country, has stated that we are fighting to spread and defend democracy then democracy must be up-help not only over-seas but at home.
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It is.
[quote]What good is loyalty to a nation if that nation gives you no freedom or even hints at restricting freedom
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What good is making up nonsense about losing freedoms simply so you can act like your disloyalty to this nation has to do with anything but you?
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An American revolutionary once wrote, "Give me Liberty or give me Death". I respond to him, "So let it be written, so let it be done".
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That as a Communist you would give him death. Becasue Patrick Henry wanted Liberty not Communism.
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Patrick Henry
March 23, 1775
No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the house. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the house is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at the truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.
Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the numbers of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.
I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received?
Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlement assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation.
There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free--if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.
It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
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Patrick Henry is a nationalist like me and for all intents in todays world a hardcore NeoCon..he is the last person a wanna be psuedo-Communist or the lunatic far left has any business quoting.
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Communism is a philosophy and philosophers are only human, it would be blind to accept everything Marx said. I believe in workers controling industry and the rich being held accountable for their actions, only fools allow themselves to be packed into a clique. The Rosenburgs were traitors, the Times are reporters and journalists who can and should print whatever they want. If democracy is being up-held then why is the government suggesting a newspaper be banned for writing something they find disagreable, that certifies as violation of the First Amendment to me. How dare you call me disloyal to my country! My father fought in Vietnam, my grandfather fought in WW2, both recieved Purple Hearts. I love my country and that is why I believe what I believe. This war has murdered over 2,000 Americans, this war has taken away from schools, this war has taken away from hospitals, this war has taken away from families for what. For weapons that never existed. For a dictator that was never a threat. For a president who lied and used our anger and sorrow to lead us into a war that is un-beneficial to Americans and thus un-American. There is loyalty to the government and there is loyalty to America, forgive me for choosing the latter. As a Communist I adore Patrick Henry. He was working class, anti-imperialist, and anti-monarchist. Patrick Henry is what every Communist should aspire to be, a man un-afraid to speak his mind no matter the consequence. I quote him "We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts." This is what has happened to self-proclaimed Conservatives. What you must learn is that loyalty to the people supercedes loyalty to the establishment.
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“Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction. No universal selfishness can bring social good to all.” —Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois
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