My analogy of life is like the weed that breaks through the asphalt and the concrete...

essentially saying ____ you to humanity's attempt to control the World...

"I'm grow'n here"

You have to respect that! The tenacity of it....like it conciously wants to fight for the sunlight.

In the end.

Nature wins, unless we see ourselves as part of it.

Nature wins whether we see ourselves as part of it or not.
But it is a control game. Nature would have destroyed us long ago had we not been bright enough to adapt.

Fortunately we are a creature that had an adaptation strategy based on two great features:
1. intellect and flexible mental skills, which is a trade off in that we lose a lot of instinct... but allows for more adaptability to things nature throws at us (of course when the sun becomes a blackhole we're done, unless we figure out interstellar travel and how to make foreign planets livable... but that's a ways away).
2. social groups. We work together. We share ideas (extremely important considering our other strategy). We protect our weak.

This is the making of a moral creature. The very seeking you do for morality is a product of these tested and true adaptive strategies of our species.
At one time in the quest for spirituality, I made the mistake of rooting against the furthering of these strategies in the name of some alleged supreme moral force... for some reason equated as nature. I still think we need to be careful because our survival is dependent on certain aspects of nature (we need resources, we need the right environment, we need sustainability), but I no longer fear progress.
Keep in mind we humans... we are the only creature that actually can take into account the macro environment of nature as we work to survive it! You don't see that from fish... as evidenced by every one that figures out how to break into a new environment.
And we didn't do it before science. The notion that tribal folk were environmental stewards... it's bunk. They just had smaller populations and less technology.
But with science, we are learning to actually take into account the environment as we progress. Not perfect. But we're improving.

__________________
"It's never over... BOY!"
The Tall Man, Phantasm III

Speaking of fish. I reside in Missouri. I have a friend who lives in the boonies 100 mi. NW of St. Louis. He has an 8 acre spring fed pond on his property. We catch largemouth bass and crappie and pan fry it on the shore like good ol' boys. Turns out the fish in his pond and 95% of the fish in the State of Missouri contain high levels of Mercury...a by-product of coal burning electricity powerplants. Not safe to eat.

So now the next generation is lost, you can catch the fish but you really shouldn't eat them.

This is a problem I have w/ the Republican party sometimes...it takes the Conserve out of Conservativism. Regardless if man-made Global Warming being fact or fiction, it is wise not to pollute for pollutions sake...it has very real consequences.

We definitely agree on this.
But in a certain way, it was the problems we ran into with hurting the environment that taught us the importance of protecting it.
Now if only we'd get a little more serious about it... but the best ways to fix what we can and prevent further damage involve new technology rather than going backward in technological progress.

__________________
"It's never over... BOY!"
The Tall Man, Phantasm III

Your welcome....And thank you for the "thanks" that you gave me.

Where we disagree is I dont think you need religion to have a basic sense of right and wrong.

Law provides that for us, however law shouldnt over step their boundaries.

Im not saying that everyone on Earth should do entirely as they please. Im saying you should be able to do whatever you please, as long as your not interfering with what anyone else wants to do....Interfering with their Free Will.

Murder takes away from free will....If you murder you should be thrown in prison or executed. What to do with those people is up to the politicians, but clearly they should be punished.

Rape is vile and imposes on that persons free will. Same thing as above.

If you steal from someone else you are harming them in a way....So yes you should be punished.

But why should we have laws that tell the rest of us what we can and cant put into our bodies, simply because someone else has decided that it is bad for you??

Why have laws that say what can and cant be considered "legal" in the bedroom (im talking about gay marriage mostly).

I dont believe in God, yet I live by the simple rule of "treat others the way I want to be treated". Im not ever having to pray for the strength to treat others well, and I dont ever consider hurting other people for no reason.

So I dont feel that it is necessary to have religion in order to be a decent human being. I also dont feel like religious morals should be determining any of our laws. Government should be in place to protect people from those who would cause us harm. I DONT think government should be there to protect people from THEMSELVES. People should be able to do what they want with their own bodies, regardless of what the bible or any other religious text says.

Again...Im not trying to tell you what to believe in. If you are happy with your faith I think that is great and in turn im happy for you. However religious morality causes UNhappiness in mine and other peoples lives and so I think its not fair that some of those unnecessary laws are shoved down our throats.

__________________
"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments"

--George Washington

"Never spend your money before you have earned it."

--Thomas Jefferson

"One man with courage is a majority."

--Thomas Jefferson

Life is finite.

Death is Infinite.

There's no replay button.

So you go ahead and live life and think that this is all there is....

be my guest.

You are condemning yourself to an infinite Death...you will be forever separated from God...as you are now.

Your passive-aggression doesn't scare me. Claiming you know more than the rest of us about what happens after you die makes you look silly.

You didnt really respond to the point I was making but that is ok.

If I am condemning myself then so be it. Im very confident that I am right though and so I am happy that im not allowing myself to live a life where im letting some invisible supreme being dictate my every move.

Oh well, only advice I would give you, since you are a religious person is to pay a BIT more attention to the part where it talks about not judging others. Besides that you clearly are a very decent and good person.

__________________
"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments"

--George Washington

"Never spend your money before you have earned it."

--Thomas Jefferson

"One man with courage is a majority."

--Thomas Jefferson

The Word of God is open to anyone who wants to receive it.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


It's very simple.

Either a person believes this to be a Truth...

or they don't.


I believe this to be a Truth.

as an addendum to this~

It's also in the Word of God, that those who believe these words to be the Truth will be Persecuted for it...they will be called a fool...they will be chastised as Judgmental....

It's all there...the condemnation in here only fulfills the Words of the Scriptures...for God will Judge us all...and unless you believe in Him....you will Not have Eternal life
with Him.

I wasn't intentionally ignoring your point. I understand you don't think, as many others don't think, that a belief in a Divinity is required for moral behavior. A moral life is certainly possible without God. A life which mirrors that of Jesus Christ doesn't require belief in any God. ~

True.

This STILL...is a life led separated from God, because the only way a person can be with God is to believe in Him.

This is the Faith of a Christian...certainly as I interpret it...and I'm admittedly not a Biblical scholar at all.

The BLUF (bottom line up front) of the situation is..that Atheists CHOOSE to reject God.

God is NOT rejecting them.

God still LOVES them and wants a relationship with them. God gave His Son for us..to enable humanity to experience God. His Son was Crucified by Humanity. Humanity rejected Jesus just as many parts of our World reject Jesus now.

There will be a COST for this and the hour of our Death. God will Judge us on this.

I realize the Atheist thinks this is all a bunch of "hocus pocus" non-sense and I expect to hear those refrains.

I'm not some back-woods person.

I'm college educated and I consider myself fairly "Worldly" in my outlook.

I've had the privilege of visiting close to 40 other Nations on this Planet...about 43 of the 50 States here in the U.S.

I am not embarrased to say, I believe that Jesus not only existed, he was also God's Son and Jesus died on the Cross for humanity's sins so that God may have a relationship with Us, his Creations.