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Old 03-25-2008, 01:27 PM
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I'll jump in here with my two cents in response to both raytri and David.

The Hebrew "hary" is most often translated into "fear". It has a great deal more meaning than that and I have also seen it translated into "obey". In the instance of "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom", the truest (IMO) translation would be inclusive of fear, awe, respect and reverence. Reverence and respect would hopefully lead to obedience. Therein lies the wisdom. God shows himself to those who seek to obey Him. Not in the literal sense, but irrefutable to the believer nonetheless.

Mathew 17: 14-20
14When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15"Lord, have mercy on my son," he said. "He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him." 17"O unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me." 18Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment.
19Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, "Why couldn't we drive it out?"
20He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."[a]




Faith comes from the Greek word "pistiv" meaning assurance or conviction. That's where it gets a little tricky. It's one thing to think of taking a "leap of faith" in the English sense of the word, quite another to leap with conviction. How do you get to be certain of something when you need to be certain of it before you can really be certain? In my case, it seemed like the right thing to do. Honestly, I don't remember what led me to choose to believe. I do know that I did not choose based on fear. I'd love to tell you a tale of great enlightenment caused me to believe, but that came some time later.
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:32 PM
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This reminds me of "Seinfeld" when Elaine was upset that Puddy didn't try to "save" her. He said, "Why? I'm not the one who's going to hell."

She had a point, you know.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri View Post
I dunno. How about the way he did in the OT -- by talking directly to us, performing miracles, and the like? Instead he skulks around and insists we believe in him without evidence.
I would love to see the power of God, manifest in a physical way. I am sure there is a great reason why he chooses to be discrete.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:32 AM
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I would love to see the power of God, manifest in a physical way. I am sure there is a great reason why he chooses to be discrete.
Can't argue with that.
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:01 AM
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I don’t think the Bible allows for us to conclude that God would demand anything of a man, unless it was moral. And just to set the record straight, God IS morality. He invented it.
Believe in me, do as I say and worship me for all eternity because I say so. Don't believe in me, then I'll send you to hell.

If there is no morality beyond god, then this is what it boils down to. I might have expected better.

Would it make any sense if god suddenly decided to change the 10 commandments to say it's okay to kill your brother for sport? Who are we to question that?... because morality was invented by god.

To me, that makes no sense. I would hate to think that morality rests on the whims of a god. Rather, I believe that the only reason god does not sway morality to his whims is because he is appealing to a universal morality that is true with or without him saying so. Granted, we may never understand the complexity of this morality, and as a result we may simply have to take God at his word. Nevertheless, I don't think it's possible for morality to exist at all if it doesn’t lie as a universal truth beyond god's whims.

What would it mean to be an all good god (or omnibenign as I've heard some put it) fighting against evil if there wasn't some measure against which it means to be all good?
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