What the hell are you carrying in that handbag? Bricks?

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I think it's reaaaaalllly distasteful. I'm all for pro-choicers having a symbol but that one is just awful - awful. And too close to home for the many, many women who have dodgy abortions in back-street clinics and end up permanently scarred if not dead.

I'm sure there are many icons out there that symbolise choice that aren't as offensive as a coat hanger. It's in very poor taste IMO.

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makedde, if you really want people to know what it means, why stop with the coat hanger? Why not wear pictures of abortions around your neck and display your power as a woman for all to see?

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"That dog's as subtle as a hand grenade in a barrrel of oat meal."--Foghorn Leghorn

Policy is about protection, not about "cleanssing sin."

What it comes down to is that both pro-life and pro-choice arguments are perfectly logical...
PRO-LIFE: A fetus is a human so killing it is murder.
PRO-CHOICE: A fetus is not fully developed into a human and is part of the woman so it is the woman's choice.

Both are logical. And the dependent point on which they differ (the state of a fetus) is completely impossible for science to determine. Might as well pass legislation on whether souls exist!
And yet each point is based on a strong fundamental human right that can't just be left to the states (well... it can, but it would be similar to leaving slavery up to the states)... And they are completely incompatible.

So IMO it comes down to pragmatism. The principles cannot be empirically set against one another. So we must just look at the effects.
When it comes down to it, abortion like drugs and prostitution, if illegal makes a black market. And furthermore it is extremely difficult to figure out who gets punished and how much... And in reality, people would rarely be caught anyway.

We'd be better off looking at the social phenomena that lead to abortion and having parents (since most of the abortions we worry about involve young women) learn these things and attempt to stop them in their tracks.
And if abortion is legal, we can have regulation... perhaps even mandatory presurgery counseling to make sure that the woman understands her other options and the enormity of her choice.
And most people do think that there are some rational reasons for an abortion... but trying to define them is problematic. For instance I think it's strange that we are so focused on method of abortion rather than reason for abortion. There are occasions where the so-called "partial birth abortions" have been used for problem pregnancies where the baby has a definite chance of death before or soon after birth.
Legalizing abortion and allowing upfront counseling allows for a case-by-case basis of figuring out when an abortion is fathomable between the woman and the doctor.

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If it were only that simple. You left out the fact that it's also the worst choice for the mother concerning her heath, both physically and mentally. Just to name a few.

The real "choice"

Science has already given all the proof that is needed, and then some. Your denial of this proof does not equate to a lack of solid evidence.

This case by case basis, as you call it, was not an idea founded through abortion, but already existed in hospitals with real doctors, not butchers for profit.

Abortion murders, and that's all it ever did.

Dave

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"That dog's as subtle as a hand grenade in a barrrel of oat meal."--Foghorn Leghorn

If that is the case then once given all the details women would not choose it.
That supports my argument of what to do.
The illegalization method leads to coathangers, back alley hacks, and punches to the belly.
My method leads to informed decision-making.

If you are so confident this is correct, why would you be afraid of informed decision-making?



Nonsense.
It's not a scientific argument. It's metaphysical. The fact is the fetus is both alive and part of the mother. The questions are based around:
Which is most important?
Is the fetus a "person"?



True.
But the laws still affect those practices, whether hospital obstetricians or abortion-doctors.

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Not to worry, it wouldn't be like you would be wearing a picture of someone murdering a baby... Oh Wait...

If proclaiming "abortion is muder" is offensive, then I bet I could file a lawsuit against Merriam Webster for their Thesaurus. "comestibles are food" That's just asking for it!