I know that my response will be so three pages ago, but I feel I must interject here. When the bombs were dropped, the war in Europe was almost over, correct? And the US had invasion plans drawn up to estimate the force needed to attack the Japanese mainland and win. One show that I saw on the History Channel stated that this force would be in excess of 500K Allied infantry to attack the mainland and even then, the chances of success were not good and casualities to Allied forces would be extremely high. Remind yourself of the Japanese mindset. This is the culture that gave us samurai and kamikaze. This is the culture that sees surrender as cowardice.

When the Japanese took a couple of Aleutian islands and the US went there in what was supposed to be an easy rout to remove the Japanese forces from Alaska, America suffered casualities to almost 2/3 of the force that it sent to remove a JApanese force that was half the size.

What I am trying to say is that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrible events in our history, both as a nation and a world. However, if given the choice, I believe Truman chose the most expedient, least harmful method with which to end the war. (In case anyone cares, the US did warn Japan that another bomb was coming if they didn't surrender. They didn't. Thus, Nagasaki.)

Pride goeth before the fall.

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Those who cannot think or take responsibility for themselves need, and clamor for, a leader.

Ok to rephase: you are fine with innocenst dieing because they are led by murderers, even if you draw a distinction between the two. Great.

Actually it is- humanity evolved some moral and eventually legal guidlines about how low we stoop in our darkest hour of madness that is war- one of those rules is not killing civilians, especially not intentionally.

Right and ensure that the very wost of humanity occurs again. Don't talk to me about teh bitter reality, you should be happy to think that even when people go nuts and start stupid wars with each other, some sanity has been erected to protect people. That includes you and your nation btw.

Christ what denial. You were the strongest with traditional military after the war(economically too), were part of an overwhelming coalition to do it, had just crushed your enemies far more substantially than the spectres you bring up now and went on to gain favour through lending a hand with the Marshall plan. You were fine, you were safe- and Japan was all alone.

To get America's message across, your government didn't have to test it on japanese heads, and their consequentally mutated children to come. A nice test on an island somewhere if you desperately needed to convince Russia you were MAD would have surficed.

"Countless" you mean you have absolutely no idea what phantom wars would have been fought, no actuall numbers- not particularily persuaisive compared to the hard numbers of these bombings is it? And I repeat once again, that does not change the fact taht it was a war crime, and an act of terror. LITERALLY.

Hadn't Berlin already fallen? Not sure on that score, but yeah, certainly over one way or another. Come on, that 'plan' was designed with one purpose- to aid the argument you're making right now. How about a consistant targetted bombing campaign? Or why invade at all- why not a blockade? We had all the options here, better technology, more people, better morale. Hell, you think Russia wouldn't have leaped at the opportunity to gobble up an island or two of Japan...oh theres another reason- guess America didn't want Japan surrendering to Russia eh? Gods.

And listen to yourself- despite their vaunted Samurai history they still surrendered...so yeah not exactly outside the realms of possibility is it?

Great. Guess who was lost the pacific in the end? Oh yeah. Besides, what it was Samurainess alone that casued that? What about the two leadership, tech possibilities. And seeing as the allies did win eventually, I doubt taht ratio was all that consistant.

Bushido has been blown out of all proportion on this. Besides, someone here said that they had already tried to surrender, but were refused by the americans nominally because of the conditions of the surrender- keeping their Emperor or somesuch. I'll try and find the guy and get him in here, he seems far better versed.

Hmm, always wanted to know what the time delay between the two were. Yeah, not the trump-card you might think it was "Well bombing them once didn't dent their Bushidoness...I know, lets do it again!" Yeah that makes tonnes of sense.

I think it was a terrible event, one which many Americans can't reconcile themselves to the truth of. Unfortunate, as you're not responsible, and recognitioon of truth can only be a good thing I think.

I agree, but that doesn't mean that the people of Nagasaki and Hiroshima deserved what they got.

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"Masters of War" by Bob Dylan
"When a man assumes public trust, he should consider himself as public property"
-Thomas Jefferson
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
-Albert Einstein
"One man with courage is a majority"
-Thomas Jefferson

I don't know, like if you and every Islamic person in the world were held hostage and the gunman turned to you and said I either kill you or [blank] number of Muslims.

__________________
"Masters of War" by Bob Dylan
"When a man assumes public trust, he should consider himself as public property"
-Thomas Jefferson
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
-Albert Einstein
"One man with courage is a majority"
-Thomas Jefferson

insulting whites is eloquence?

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A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.The U.S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself."
Benjamin Franklin
http://i27.tinypic.com/2hn2lpv.jpg

__________________
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.The U.S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself."
Benjamin Franklin
http://i27.tinypic.com/2hn2lpv.jpg