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Old 05-08-2008, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
You can't pass a law that supersedes the Constitution. According to the 14th amendment: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Nothing short of another constitutional amendment can change this.
I think maybe I might not be communicating my main point:
Legality is really not an issue in the larger scheme of things concerning the larger issue of illegal immigration.

It's not worth it to make a rather hard to remove ammendment for the purpose of solving a pet issue of today... when it won't solve the problem anyway!
Plus... if we can't pass laws for dealing with the more pressing larger problem, how will we see an ammendment pass that deals with a smaller subissue.

But most of all... is the problem that makes this so contentious really about the kids becoming citizens? No. In other times that has been helpful rather than a problem.
The reason people are all over it now is because they wrongly believe that changing this particular law will reduce illegal immigration and the net problems involved.
All it will really do is cause the problem to go even further underground.

To actually solve the problem requires going for the root.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 04:50 PM
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Ideally. Illegal immigration is not their problem. It's ours.

This constitutional ammendment would be nothing more than another band-aid and one that might not always be valid.

Ask yourself: is the citizenship of illegal immigrants' kids really the main problem in the issue? Doubtful.
Is it the root problem?
Definitely not.
I don't expect the amendment will stop or even slow down illegal immigration, but it will put an end to the legal children of illegal aliens being eligible for welfare, food stamps and WIC's coupons.

Quote:
Study: 25% of LA's Welfare Goes to Undocumented Immigrants
May 6, 2008, 5:42 AM PDT

L.A. County Supervisor Mike Antonovich says the county spends more than $1 billion a year on benefits to undocumented immigrants.

According to new data from the Department of Public Social Services, nearly twenty five percent of Los Angeles County 's welfare and food stamp benefits goes directly to the children of undocumented immigrants, at a cost of $36 million a month -- for a projected annual cost of $432 million.

"The total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year - not including the millions of dollars for education," said Antonovich.

"With $220 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $432 million in welfare allocations, illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact on Los Angeles County taxpayers."

The supervisor said, in March, undocumented immigrants collected over $19 million in welfare assistance and over $16 million in food stamp allocations.

http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-welfar...,6331573.story
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
You can't pass a law that supersedes the Constitution. According to the 14th amendment: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Nothing short of another constitutional amendment can change this.
Do you know how much trouble would be avoided if they had just attached "on or before (date)" to the amendment?

Hind-sight rocks my world!
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:22 AM
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I don't expect the amendment will stop or even slow down illegal immigration, but it will put an end to the legal children of illegal aliens being eligible for welfare, food stamps and WIC's coupons.
That's a symptomatic problem that may not always be a problem.
I don't take constitutional ammendments lightly and cannot see passing one for the purpose of today's pet issue.
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:56 PM
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That's a symptomatic problem that may not always be a problem.
I don't take constitutional ammendments lightly and cannot see passing one for the purpose of today's pet issue.
I understand your point, but what would you to stop the illegals running across the border pregnant for the sole purpose of dropping an anchor baby who is immediately entitled to welfare, food stamps and WIC's coupons?

Quote:
"The total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year - not including the millions of dollars for education," said Antonovich.
That's Los Angeles county ONLY. It's breaking the back of our state. I don't know how bad the problem is in Michigan, but Southern California is ground zero with near 3 million illegals calling it home. We are sinking under their weight. I realize for anyone who lives in a state where the illegal population is small and not really a problem it's hard to feel and see the impact.

There has been 84 Hospital closures between 1996 to September 2006, and this list is almost 2 years old.

Quote:
2005 Hospital Closures

Valley Plaza Doctors Hospital, Perrsi, Riverside County
Brea Community Hospital, Brea, Orange County
Orthopaedic Hospital, Los Angeles, Los Angeles County

2004 Hospital Closures

Santa Teresita Hospital, Duarte, Los Angeles County
Angles Hospital, Rancho Cucamonga, San Bernardino County
Monrovia Community Hospital, Monrovia, Los Angeles County
Central Valley Orthopedic & Spine Institute, Sanger, Fresno County
Elastar Community Hospital, Los Angeles, Los Angeles County
Northridge Hosp. Med. Ctr. - Sherman Way Campus, Van Nuys, Los Angeles County
Robert F. Kennedy Medical Center, Hawthorne, Los Angeles County
San Jose Medical Center, San Jose, Santa Clara County

2003 Hospital Closures

Pine Grove Hospital (Psychiatric Hospital), Canoga Park, Los Angeles County
Orange County Community - Buena Park, Buena Park, Orange County
Bellwood General Hospital, Bellflower, Los Angeles County
St. Francis Medical Center - Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara County
San Luis Obispo General Hospital, San Luis Obispo, San Luis Obispo County
L. A. County - High Desert Hospital, Lancaster, Los Angeles County
Granada Hills Community Hospital, Granada Hills, Los Angeles County
Santa Ana Hospital Medical Center, Santa Ana, Orange County
Mercy Westside Hospital, Taft, Kern County

2002 Hospital Closures

St. Luke Medical Center, Pasadena, Los Angeles County
Anacapa Hospital, Port Hueneme, Venture County

2001 Hospital Closures

Childrens Community Mental Health Center, Van Nuys, Los Angeles County
Alta Hospital District, Dinuba, Tulare County
San Ramon Rehabilitation Hospital, San Ramon, Contra Costa County
Memorial Hospital at Exeter, Exeter, Tulare County

2000 Hospital Closures

UCSF Medical Center at Mount Zion, San Francisco, San Francisco County
Bay Harbor Hospital, Harbor Bay, Los Angeles County
Walnut Creek Hospital, Walnut Creek, Contra Costa County
Charter BHS Hospital – Roseville, Placer County
Charter BHS Hospital – Corona, Riverside County
Hoopa Community Hospital
Scripps Hospital - East County, El Cajon, San Diego County
Kaiser Foundation Hospital - El Cajon, San Diego County
Edgemont Hospital, Los Angeles, Los Angeles County
Doctor's Hospital of Pinole, Pinole, Contra Costa County
Pacific Coast Hospital, San Francisco, San Francisco County
Heritage Hospital - Inland Empire, Rancho Cucamonga, Riverside County
Bayview Hospital & Mental Health System, Chula Vista, San Diego County
Lindsay District Hospital, Lindsay, Tulare County
Mission Bay Hospital, San Diego, San Diego County
The Heart Hospital, Rancho Mirage, Riverside County
Martin Luther Hospital Medical Center
Mercy American River Hospital

1999 Hospital Closures

Washington Hospital - Culver City, Los Angeles County
Valley Community Hospital, Santa Maria, Santa Barbara County
Charter BHS - So. Cal. - Palm Springs, Cathedral City, Riverside County
St. Louise Mental Health Center, Morgan Hill, Santa Clara County
Charter BHS Hospital - Mission Viejo, Mission Viejo, Orange County
Ross Hospital, Kentfield, Marin County
Charter BHS Hospital - San Jose, San Jose, Santa Clara County
San Luis Rey Hospital, Encinitas, San Diego County

1998 Hospital Closures

Calexico Hospital, Calexico, Imperial County
Bloss Memorial District Hospital, At water, Merced County
Del Puerto Hospital, Patterson, Stanislaus County
Friendly Hills Regional Medical Center, La Habra, Orange County
South Bay Medical Center, Redondo Beach, Los Angeles County
Capistrano by the Sea Hospital, Dana Point, Orange County
North Hollywood Hospital, North Hollywood, Los Angeles County
Valley Childrens Hospital & Guidance Clinic, Fresno, Fresno County
Pacifica Hospital, Huntington Beach, Orange County

1997 Hospital Closures

Thompson Medical Center, Burbank, Los Angeles County
Harbor View Medical Center, San Diego, San Diego County
East Bay Hospital, Richmond, Contra Costa County
SHC Specialty Hospital, Westlake Village, Los Angeles County
Pioneer Hospital, Artesia, Los Angeles County
Woodruff Community Hospital, Long Beach, Los Angeles County
Stanislaus Medical Center, Modesto, Stanislaus County
Newhall Community Hospital, Newhall, Los Angeles County
Belmont Hills Hospital, Belmont, San Mateo County
THC - San Diego, San Diego, San Diego County

1996 Hospital Closures

Sierra Hospital – Fresno, Fresno, Fresno County
Starting Point of Orange County, Costa Mesa, Orange County
Desert Plams Hospital, Palmdale, Los Angeles County
Community Hospital Mental Health – Oakcrest, Santa Rosa, SonomaCounty
Charter BHS - Los Altos, Long Beach, Los Angeles County
Charter BHS - Thousand Oaks, Westlake Village, Ventura County
Charter BHS - Yorba Linda, Yorba Linda, Orange County
The Garden Campus
Sun Ridge Hospital, Yuba City, Sutter County
Westside Hospital, Los Angeles, Los Angeles County
Avenal District Hospital

http://www.calhospital.org/public/ER/cat1.asp
All of these hospitals and more have shut their doors....gone. The main reason is the overburdening of the uninsured illegals. Birthing anchor babies is one of the largest costs and using the emergency rooms as a free clinic even though low cost county clinics are available. Why would they use a clinic where they have to pay a $30 fee when the ER is free? I am open to suggestions, what would Java do?
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