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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2008, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by izzur View Post
I think "very little cost to the American taxpayer" is wrong, and I'm not sure why you think that. Without getting into the debate over how much of our economy relies on illegal immigrants and the labor shortage we'd face if they all "self-deported", who pays for the e-verification? That requires records, computer systems, internet access, things which require expensive equipment that the constructions sites, hotels, farms and other capital-poor businesses which tend to hire illegals would have to pay for, out of their taxpayer dollars.

The alternative is that the system is financed and paid for by the government on the taxpayer's dime rather than the employers, but that still hurts taxpayers.

After all this, you still have to take into account the increased costs of operations incurred by business that now have to pay more money for legal workers (most of whom wouldn't do the sort of labor Mexicans do for minimum wage in a million years). Cost of business goes up, prices rise to reflect it, taxpayers suffer. QED.

I wish people would just accept that the illegal immigrant labor pool is not just important, but vital.
Nice wish based in a false premise. I'm not sure where you live, but I have been to only one business in the last five years that didn't do their bookkeeping on a computer with a telephone on the desk. It was a husband and wife dentist office. Every construction site has a management trailer complete with phone and computer, they're not doing their payroll on paper. I worked as a copy and fax repair person and visited zillions of types of businesses. From construction sites, fast food restaurants and AM/PM mini markets all use computers to handle their inventory. In fact most of their inventory control is done automatically. As they sell product the inventory declines, when a preset level is achieved, the computer automatically phone home with a new merchandise order.

E-verification requires NO special software. Just a computer, a phone line and an internet connection. You can get a computer these day for between $400 - $600, internet connection $13.99 a month for a DSL Extreme connection. If your business can't afford that it's going to fail, e-verification or not.

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Cost of business goes up, prices rise to reflect it, taxpayers suffer.
Do you have any idea what they cost the taxpayers every just by being here? A small raise in price would be dirt cheap in comparison. No pro illegal argument can win on the numbers alone. They drain $45 Billion dollars from the economy each year with the money they wire out of the country alone. Add another $70 Billion in health, education and social services, take away the $12 Billion they pay in taxes and what do you get?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2008, 02:44 PM
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VALPARAÍSO, Mexico- Less than two months after he was elected, Mayor Alberto Ruiz Flores climbed in his truck and set out on a 26-hour road trip across the border to Southern California, carrying a wish list of public works projects to a backyard barbecue in Oxnard.

The reason? To solicit money from some of the 400,000 Mexicans who abandon their country each year for work in the United States, including half his town in Central Mexico. Those who have left Valparaíso send home an estimated $100,000 a day, as much money in one month as the municipality will spend all year.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by StarryStarrySkies View Post
Maybe we should stop alienating ourselves from illegal immigrants and instead try to alleviate the problem. They're not going away. We need to figure out how to prevent crime and tax evasion while they occupy this country. It's naive to think we can just build a wall.
Preventing crime is not about Hispanics...there are more White people committing crimes than anyone. There is probably going to be more crime in certain demographics than others but I won't buy that Hispanics are any more involved than others.

Tax evasion is a tough one. I've stated on this thread that all non-citizens must register and obtain a SS number and begin paying applicable taxes. In my industry of farming, where we have sporadic need for workers, currently it is a cash system; someone works eight hours and at the end of the day they are paid. Since few have SS numbers, there's nothing I can do about it; I can't withhold taxes because there's no place I can send them without SS numbers. I can't demand only workers with SS numbers because there are not enough of them. It's quite a complex issue and the employers is not the only answer...
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Anikdote View Post
The reason? To solicit money from some of the 400,000 Mexicans who abandon their country each year for work in the United States, including half his town in Central Mexico. Those who have left Valparaíso send home an estimated $100,000 a day, as much money in one month as the municipality will spend all year.

I'm not sure the intent of this article, but I don't personally see anything wrong with someone going to another country to work. If they can't find what they need in their country, then why not find it in another country??

Regarding the money being sent home; so what...it's their money to do whatever they wish. They can stuff it in their mattresses if they wish or spend every penny on pay day--it's none of my business.

I recently read an article that said in the past 20 years in the USA there have been 17 million work visas given out. It would be great to know the actual quantity, but assuming 17 million is close, this pretty much says most all non-citizen workers are legal...
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:46 PM
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[quote=OldManOnFire;639577]
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I'm not sure the intent of this article, but I don't personally see anything wrong with someone going to another country to work. If they can't find what they need in their country, then why not find it in another country??

Regarding the money being sent home; so what...it's their money to do whatever they wish. They can stuff it in their mattresses if they wish or spend every penny on pay day--it's none of my business.

I recently read an article that said in the past 20 years in the USA there have been 17 million work visas given out. It would be great to know the actual quantity, but assuming 17 million is close, this pretty much says most all non-citizen workers are legal...
Could you be any more obvious?
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by OldManOnFire View Post
I'm not sure the intent of this article, but I don't personally see anything wrong with someone going to another country to work. If they can't find what they need in their country, then why not find it in another country??

Regarding the money being sent home; so what...it's their money to do whatever they wish. They can stuff it in their mattresses if they wish or spend every penny on pay day--it's none of my business.

I recently read an article that said in the past 20 years in the USA there have been 17 million work visas given out. It would be great to know the actual quantity, but assuming 17 million is close, this pretty much says most all non-citizen workers are legal...
Ummm, wow? Yes, what's wrong with taking money from our economy and moving it to another country? What's wrong with not paying into social services while receiving them?
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