Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > Politics by Region > Russia & Eastern Europe


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 04:32 PM
Toby's Avatar
Toby Toby is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,041
usa us north carolina
Toby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 21,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
No, I don't believe that helping the poor at the cost of the wealth is wrong,
Our founding fathers did!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
but I believe that it should be more regulated.
More big goverment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
There are people, such as Bill Gates, who has more money then he can spend or need, while there are many people barely making it in the United States.
So we descriminate against the rich because we think its not fair that they have more money than we do? try again. that is a violation of individual liberties!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
At the same time, some of those people who are collecting government aid, refuse to look for a job and better themselves.
they become dependant on big liberal goverment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
I support financially helping poor farmers or single mothers, but there should be more regulations to prevent abuse.
I support holding people accountable for their actions. I support the right to fail! I support life liberty and the PERSUIT OF HAPPYNESS. Not the taxpayer subsidized Guarentee of happyness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
I see it first hand that some people actually abuse the system by intentionally remaining unemployed and lying about their income.
And why shouldent they? theyre getting away with it without being held accountable for their own actions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
I hear it in the barbershops and at barbecues from people who were accepted for government aid admitting to lying about their income to get welfare to those who were rejected and even encouraging the people who were rejected to go back and lie. My aunt was actually caught cheating the system a while back and she had to repay the welfare she received. So to sum this up, I support the government helping the poor, but make sure you helping a person who really needs the help and is not simply looking for an handout. I believe that if we actually put the proper regulations in place, we could cut social spending in half. Yes, there are a lot of people cheating the system at the cost of the rich and middle class.
I support holding the individual accountable for his own mistakes and his own actions.
I support not charging the american taxpayer for the misfortunes of another. I support the individuals right to suceed or fail.
I support the individuals right to life liberty and the persuit of happyness.
I do not support the taxpayer subsidised guarentee of happyness.
I do not support guarenteed happyness at the expence of others!
I support the individuals right to choose weather he wants to donate to the unfortunant.
I do not support the goverment forcing us to pay for the misfortunes of someone that I have never met!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 04:37 PM
Kenny's Avatar
Kenny Kenny is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Age: 17
Posts: 279
usa us alabama
Kenny is a jewel in the roughKenny is a jewel in the roughKenny is a jewel in the rough
Credits: 2,464
Send a message via AIM to Kenny
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby View Post
Our founding fathers did!
Our founding fathers also thought that free slave labor to gain this wealth was right, their creditability and views isn't worth much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby View Post
So we descriminate against the rich because we think its not fair that they have more money than we do?
Absolutely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby View Post
I support holding people accountable for their actions. I support the right to fail! I support life liberty and the PERSUIT OF HAPPYNESS. Not the taxpayer subsidized Guarentee of happyness.
Start holding the rich and corrupt businessman on Wall Street accountable first. Hold the big oil cooperations accountable and those cooperations stealing jobs from the poor, while building sweat shops in China for cheap slave labor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby View Post
And why shouldent they? theyre getting away with it without being held accountable for their own actions!
Yes, why shouldn't they? Everytime they go to Walmart or McDonalds, the rich are exploiting them, so why not exploit the rich. The rich want commerce from the poor, while they continue to steal jobs for cheaper labor opportunity and then wonder why they are being taxed for social spending.


Well, if you support allowing the poor to starve and suffer, lets not bring morals into the argument, or lets not talk about right and wrong concerning redistribution of wealth. The only argument that can be made by you is "greed" of the rich. Plain and simple. Lets not talk about discrimination against someone who would allow millions of people to starve simply because they refuse to contribute an amount of their wealth back to the community, which wouldn't even hurt their lifestyle and luxury living. Taxes don't hurt the lifestyle of the rich, they still can afford to live in a multi million dollar home and have millions to spare, but yet they want more and wish to give the poor less while they soak up every dime through exploiting capitalism. The same for the middle class, the amount of money they are taxed does not effect their lifestyle and way of living.
__________________
ShadyPolitics.com - My Blog
ShadyPolitics.com/forums - Political Forum (temporary closed)

Last edited by Kenny; 07-02-2008 at 04:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 04:42 PM
Truth-Bringer's Avatar
Truth-Bringer Truth-Bringer is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4,850
usa us alabama
Truth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 46,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Pole Resident View Post
So any idea why America supports dictatorship in Gerogia?
America doesn't support it. The U.S. government supports it. Most people in the U.S. probably have no clue about what's going on in Georgia (other than the state of Georgia in the U.S.).

The U.S. government backs numerous dictators, as long as they pledge to support the U.S. in whatever way the bosses in Washington, DC deem fit.

They Backed Any Tyrant

Born on a continent that is separated from the rest of the world by two oceans, US politicians have always been exceedingly ignorant and naive about the feelings of foreigners.

Almost from the day it was created, Washington has had a policy of backing any tyrant who claimed to be pro-US. These "pro-US" cutthroats have received money, weapons, ammunition, almost anything they needed to suppress their own populations and attack other countries.

For decades, victims of these "pro-US" thugs tried to change the behavior of the US government. Mass protests at the gates of US embassies became routine.

The demonstrations had little effect, so the increasingly frustrated victims of the US leviathan state began to hit back against the individuals represented by that state. These acts of revenge were dubbed...

Terrorism


Rest of Article here
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 05:24 PM
Toby's Avatar
Toby Toby is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,041
usa us north carolina
Toby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond reputeToby has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 21,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Our founding fathers also thought that free slave labor to gain this wealth was right, their creditability and views isn't worth much.
Conservative Quotes From Our Founding Fathers.
I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of slavery.
George Washington

Consenting to slavery is a sacrilegious breach of trust, as offensive in the sight of God as it is derogatory from our own honor or interest of happiness
John Adams

There must doubtless be an unhappy influence on the manners of our people produced by the existence of slavery among us. The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submissions on the other.
Thomas Jefferson

"The existence of slavery makes us fancy many things that are founded neither in reason or experience."
Alexander Hamilton

Benjamin Franlin WAS THE LEADER OF THE "Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery and the Relief of Free Negros Unlawfully Held in Bondage."

John Jay drafted a law to abolish slavery in 1777!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Absolutely.
Well Im glad that you admit to being a socialist! Taking money away from one man to give it to another "against his will" is a violation of our libertys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Start holding the rich and corrupt businessman on Wall Street accountable first. Hold the big oil cooperations accountable and those cooperations stealing jobs from the poor, while building sweat shops in China for cheap slave labor.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson


To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

No power on earth has a right to take our property from us without our consent.
John Jay

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Yes, why shouldn't they? Everytime they go to Walmart or McDonalds, the rich are exploiting them, so why not exploit the rich. The rich want commerce from the poor, while they continue to steal jobs for cheaper labor opportunity and then wonder why they are being taxed for social spending.
They are providing a service! they arent exploiting them! NO ONE IS MAKING THEM SHOP THERE! YOU WANT JOBS TO STAY IN AMERICA? THEN QUIT OVERTAXING THEM! Overtaxing only results in on of three things. 1. massive layoffs 2. higher prices 3. relocation to another country. America has the highest coperate tax IN THE WORLD!!! Business has the right to come and go as they please do they not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Well, if you support allowing the poor to starve and suffer,
Im a bad man because I let people make their own dumb descisions and take responsibility for them? Am I to believe that I am responsible for a compleate stranger that cant take care of himself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
lets not bring morals into the argument, or lets not talk about right and wrong concerning redistribution of wealth. The only argument that can be made by you is "greed" of the rich.
Whats wrong with bettering yourself ang becoming rich? Oh I see. Your jealous that people have more money than others? Welcome to a free country where you have the right to suceed or fail. Always remember that OVER 50% of the richest people in America STARTED FROM NOTHING!!!! Thoes greedy people!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Plain and simple. Lets not talk about discrimination against someone who would allow millions of people to starve simply because they refuse to contribute an amount of their wealth back to the community, which wouldn't even hurt their lifestyle and luxury living.
They dont want to share there money with people so you want to make them share there money with people? Welcome to Fascism!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Taxes don't hurt the lifestyle of the rich, they still can afford to live in a multi million dollar home and have millions to spare, but yet they want more and wish to give the poor less while they soak up every dime through exploiting capitalism. The same for the middle class, the amount of money they are taxed does not effect their lifestyle and way of living.
Welcome to Marxism! I think you have covered all three of the anti american ideas. Socialism, Marxism, and Fascism! Congradulations!

Everyone has the right to exploit capitalism! Even a poor man! However if he fails to, I SHOULD NOT BE PUNISHED FOR IT!

All americans should be taxed the same percentage! Discriminating against the wealthy because your jealous of them doesent give you the right to take away their libertys in the persuit of giving nonexistant libertys to another.

No man should be forced to pay for the misfortunes of another against his will!

"Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built." -
-- Abraham Lincoln



Last edited by Toby; 07-02-2008 at 05:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 05:48 PM
Truth-Bringer's Avatar
Truth-Bringer Truth-Bringer is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4,850
usa us alabama
Truth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 46,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Our founding fathers also thought that free slave labor to gain this wealth was right, their creditability and views isn't worth much.
Irrational nonsense. First of all, if the Founding Fathers were incorrect about one issue, that doesn't invalidate all the other issues.

Secondly, many of the Founders were opposed to slavery from the very beginning, and fought quite passionately to try and stop it.

The Founding Fathers and Slavery

Quote:
For many of the Founders, their feelings against slavery went beyond words. For example, in 1774, Benjamin Franklin and Benjamin Rush founded America’s first anti-slavery society; John Jay was president of a similar society in New York. In fact, when signer of the Constitution William Livingston heard of the New York society, he, as Governor of New Jersey, wrote them, offering:

I would most ardently wish to become a member of it [the society in New York] and . . . I can safely promise them that neither my tongue, nor my pen, nor purse shall be wanting to promote the abolition of what to me appears so inconsistent with humanity and Christianity. . . . May the great and the equal Father of the human race, who has expressly declared His abhorrence of oppression, and that He is no respecter of persons, succeed a design so laudably calculated to undo the heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke. 23
Other prominent Founding Fathers who were members of societies for ending slavery included Richard Bassett, James Madison, James Monroe, Bushrod Washington, Charles Carroll, William Few, John Marshall, Richard Stockton, Zephaniah Swift, and many more. In fact, based in part on the efforts of these Founders, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts began abolishing slavery in 1780; 24 Connecticut and Rhode Island did so in 1784; 25 Vermont in 1786; 26 New Hampshire in 1792; 27 New York in 1799; 28 and New Jersey did so in 1804. 29
Additionally, the reason that Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Iowa all prohibited slavery was a Congressional act, authored by Constitution signer Rufus King 30 and signed into law by President George Washington, 31 which prohibited slavery in those territories. 32 It is not surprising that Washington would sign such a law, for it was he who had declared:

I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it [slavery]. 33
Quote:
Absolutely.
You have no right to steal from anyone, regardless of how much they have. You have no right to empower others to steal from them either.

Quote:
Start holding the rich and corrupt businessman on Wall Street accountable first. Hold the big oil cooperations accountable and those cooperations stealing jobs from the poor, while building sweat shops in China for cheap slave labor.
Problem is - you can't hold corporations accountable if the government is corrupt. Here's a perfect example, note how the Democrats were highly involved in helping the large businesses destroy the small businesses.

CORPORATIONS USE THE GOVERNMENT TO DESTROY THEIR COMPETITION - OTHERWISE THAT FREE MARKET COMPETITION WOULD KEEP PRICES LOW AND QUALITY HIGHER. That is why government must be limited to its only legitimate function - punishing those who initiate force, fraud or coercion. By giving them authority over peaceful, honest, voluntary activities, you open yourself up to this type of abuse.

Quote:
Yes, why shouldn't they? Everytime they go to Walmart or McDonalds, the rich are exploiting them,
Exploiting them? They voluntarily choose to go. If the product doesn't satisfy them, they can return it. Let's see them try to say they don't want a government service.

If someone chooses not to go to Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart can't send armed troops to their home to make them go - the government can.

Quote:
Well, if you support allowing the poor to starve and suffer, lets not bring morals into the argument,
If the poor starve and suffer, is it all because of someone else? Did they have absolutely nothing to do with their own situation? Gee, let's not bring personal accountability into the argument... And if you want to talk about morality, taxation is theft, and it is immoral to use force or threat of force to steal from some people to give to others.
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer

Last edited by Truth-Bringer; 07-02-2008 at 05:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Truth-Bringer's Avatar
Truth-Bringer Truth-Bringer is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4,850
usa us alabama
Truth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to beholdTruth-Bringer is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 46,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
I support financially helping poor farmers or single mothers,
No, what you support is stealing from other people to allegedly help farmers and mothers. Ultimately, you will not gain a moral result through an immoral action.

In the charity I belong to, I personally pay for the food, clothing, shelter, education and medical care of 4 different children. How many people do you voluntarily help in this manner?
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008, 06:10 PM
skeptic-f skeptic-f is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 767
skeptic-f will become famous soon enoughskeptic-f will become famous soon enough
Credits: 6,355
Default Look North

America supports a dictator in Georgia because he is not willing to let the
Russians back into defacto power in Georgia. Anyone who has been paying attention knows the Russians have been both financing some of the Georgian opposition and encouraging the Ossetian seperatists. This is just a more overt and bloody version of the game previously played over the Ukraine. And if the Russians ever send in the tanks, they won't be doing it because they want to restore democracy to Georgia.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I do not support the troops or the War. This is America. jedimiller Political Opinions & Beliefs 33 11-27-2006 01:10 PM
Is Britain becoming a dictatorship petshrew Western Europe 9 11-15-2006 10:14 AM
Dictatorship - Ukraine on the Way Ritzz Russia & Eastern Europe 3 02-15-2006 06:29 PM
Defeating dictatorship Centrist Current Events 0 10-22-2005 10:46 PM
Putin attacks US 'dictatorship'. Tedminator Current Events 27 12-09-2004 05:51 PM

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden