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Old 12-18-2007, 12:28 AM
nonsqtr nonsqtr is offline
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Originally Posted by JMS";p=&quot View Post
what nonsqtr mentioned about spilling seed is what comes to my mind on this matter. there is that one account of onan, who was told to have a child with his dead brother's widow, and he was killed for spilling his seed on the ground. i think there was a similar scenario in another section where the man also refused, but didnt have sex at all, and he wasnt put to death.

now, i dont think the discussion would get very graphic on this forum so i wont take it there, but on another forum where this topic came up, one of the people arguing said anything goes in marriage - i mean anything.

im just interested in knowing what other people think about this subject.
Hmm.... well, okay, I'll bite.

Let's see, I consider myself a "progressive" Christian, which means, I kinda "interpret" things my own way.

So, what "I" see, is I kinda look through the "development" of concepts, you know, historically, like, how they first appear the "very first time" in the Old Testament (and "when"), and then how they develop, you know tracing the concept "forward" into the "New Covenant" and all that -

So that's one piece of the answer - I frame it in terms of what I believe (or perceive) to be some kinda "context", in terms of the historical development of the religiou and moral threads of thought -

But then the second piece, is this: I have a great deal of respecf for (and hopefully, understanding of) Buddhism, and the Buddhist "model". And, in my eyes, there are many many similarities with the Christian "model", it's just that the goal is different. But the "model" that's being used, in terms of describing how to "get" to that goal, has many similar elements of description.

And one of the interesting areas in which the approaches "differ" is the following: when asked whether "God exists", Buddha answered, "that is an irrelevelant question". So, I mean, when I translate that into English, it becomes the one thing you'll never hear any "politician" say, which is, "I have no opinion on that subject".

You know, so when I look through the New Testament (which is primarily what I'm interested in, 'cause I mean, I really wanna know what was going on with 1st century Christianity) - I kinda make the observation that Jesus "himself" doesn't have a whole lot to say, on the subject of sex. "Other" people (like Paul for instance), have a bit to say, but there's very little "directly attributed to Jesus". It's almost like, he had "no opinion" on this subject.

And then, when you look through "other historical material" that's available, like some of these so-called "lost Gospels" (Nag Hammadi and etc) - you start hearing "Jesus said this" and "Jesus said that", and I mean, it seems to be a pretty rich resource on Jesus's own personal opinions on a lot of things, and so.... you know, it's hard to say exactly what kind of "credibility" these things carry, but you, I'm not gonna reject them out of hand just 'cause they aren't in the "official" Bible.

So I mean, in the "official" Bible, we find Jesus ministering to hookers and stopping the people from acting on their moral outrage in that regard, and so right there, we find that sex has a "context", even "sex for money". And then in the "unofficial" Bible, we find Jesus saying some things about Mary and the like, when his disciples are asking him, "hey, what's up with you and her", and so, stuff like that.

But I mean, you know, you don't get "specifics", right? No one's gonna tell you that you can position ABC but not position XYZ. They're just gonna kinda give you this "gestalt" that says that you "should" be in some kind of a committed and "sanctified" (via marriage) relationship, and anything other than that, is kinda unhealthy (morally speaking).

And I mean, I even look at that "marriage" thing in a historical context, 'cause at that particular time, they still had all kinds of strange concepts floatin' around, you know, "women as chattel" and the "responsibility of the dowry" and all the rest of that kinda stuff -

And I mean, what I specifically don't buy into, is the later "doctrinal" developments that were mainly "political" in nature, so for instance, this whole mumbo-jumbo in the Catholic Church about how priests oughta be "wedded to the Church" instead of "wedded to their wives", or whatever - you know, it's based on a single line in the Bible, and there's a "context" around that piece too, right?

So, I mean, that's kinda my take - there are very few things that are "explicitly forbidden", and the "gestalt" I get from the Bible, in the way of counseling and wisdom on the underlying morality, is that the "sex" part is best done in the "context" of a loving relationship. And I mean, you know, different strokes for different folks, right? Some people "can't" have babies. Are you gonna tell 'em they "can't" have sex?
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