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Old 07-24-2008, 02:19 AM
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Default How utopianism can avoid becoming dogmatism.

I would like to expose the hidden dangers utopianism conceals, as it dictates the reach of perfection , that utopianists have imagined, by all means-as history has taught as- and thus becoming dogmatism.

To my opinion, a utopia to succeed has to remain unrealized, for not becoming a dogma, which can result only in dystopia, a totalitarian and repressive world.
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:40 AM
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If a Utopia happened to be right, it wouldn't lead to dystopia. The dogma would be correct and thus not problematic.
I think the problem is more that no utopia actually works in all circumstances. To believe in a utopia is to believe in dogma over real life circumstances.

Of course pure pragmatism is a dogma all itself (there has to be some underlying assumption, otherwise nihilism is the only true pragmatism... and who wants that?).

The way I look at it is that one should be an idealist but seek realistic means and have realistic expectations.
Idealism is different from utopianism in that it's focused on broad "values" or "principles", whereas a utopia, by definition, is sort of a specific blueprint for the "perfect society".
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:29 PM
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Utopias are, by their very nature, dystopias, because it inherently involves know-it-all liberals setting themselves up as little dictatorial authorities who know what is best for everybody else and thereby use that as a license to save everybody from themselves whether or not they want to be saved.
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:34 PM
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:47 PM
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You've got that right!
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:26 PM
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I would like to expose the hidden dangers utopianism conceals, as it dictates the reach of perfection , that utopianists have imagined, by all means-as history has taught as- and thus becoming dogmatism.

To my opinion, a utopia to succeed has to remain unrealized, for not becoming a dogma, which can result only in dystopia, a totalitarian and repressive world.
There is such a thing as a right-wing, Jeffersonian-style utopia, which would definitely not end in totalitarianism or oppression.

The pursuit of a perfect world and utilitarianism are not exclusively leftist positions.
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:49 PM
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There is such a thing as a right-wing, Jeffersonian-style utopia, which would definitely not end in totalitarianism or oppression.

The pursuit of a perfect world and utilitarianism are not exclusively leftist positions.
A right-wing utopia? That would definitely be a dystopia!
Right-wing Jeffersonian? That's a laugh!
All utopias force themselves upon everyone else and so are by definition dystopias. End of story.
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:51 PM
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A right-wing utopia? That would definitely be a dystopia!
Right-wing Jeffersonian? That's a laugh!
Ummm.... Jefferson was about as far right as you could possibly go.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:39 PM
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Ummm.... Jefferson was about as far right as you could possibly go.
By the standards of the time, the Federalists were as far right as you could go.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:44 PM
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By the standards of the time, the Federalists were as far right as you could go.
By ideological standards, the only thing farther to the right than the Jeffersonians are the anarcho-capitalists. I am just slightly to the left of the Jeffersonians, and I am very, very far right wing.
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