JMS: it is not a factually inaccurate statement. it does contain a fantastic story with no supporting evidence.
USG: Do you need to get your hands on a video tape of Moses parting the red see or taste the whale bile on the sleeve of Jonah’s tunic? What is your standard of evidence? What do you mean by “no supporting evidence”?
JMS: context is important, and if you read my posts in this thread, in order, youll see that the context i described is consistent with the record.
USG: Context is King. But I have no idea what you just said.
JMS: …gay rights isn’t what motivates me to discredit the bible - to be honest, I don’t think there is much of anything to discredit in the first place, as long as it’s kept in its place.
USG: I don’t think the greatest book ever written allows you to just shrug your shoulders and walk away. If you received a notice from the town board of health that radon is collecting in the basements of houses in your area, you would be a fool to ignore it, just because you despise the guy who authored the letter.
JMS: …my disbelief in the bible is really irrelevant to my main concern which is the legislation of religion.
USG: You may be surprised to know that legislating religion is as equally reprehensible to Christians as it is to you. I would never vote for a candidate to wanted going to Church to be a law. As a matter of fact, most, nay, all of the real Christians I know despise religion in all its forms.
JMS: siding with faith over science, and essentially doing away with it (e.g., creationism in classrooms).
USG: I don’t think true Christians want to put faith over science. I think most Christians have faith in Science. Because they are utterly convinced that God is the creator of Science. He set up the rules. My problem is, that most secular humanists can’t stomach that God thought of the flagellum first, that he invented the genome, that he shaped the inner ear, that he is the power behind gravity and nuclear fusion. They want to be the first to discover a vaccine, not merely be the vessel by which it is introduced.
JMS: …your examples of betterment (aside from the gay converts) are touching.
USG: Let me be clinical for a moment. For me, a man who finds deliverance from a behavior that increased his likelihood of dying before age 50 is bad? A man who finds deliverance from the impulse to insert one of the most vulnerable parts of his body (vulnerable to infections of all kinds) into the most bacteria filled, filthy part of another man’s body is wrong? A woman who finds deliverance from entering into sexual relationships with other women, having things inserted into her that were never meant to be, risking all kinds of health issues, that’s bad? The Bible flawlessly admonishes against these behaviors. Why is that bad? What is wrong with the message that “he that finds a wife, finds a good thing and obtains favor from God”. Traditional families are the bedrock of a healthy society. 98/100 trained sociologist who ever wrote a book on the subject agree. How can you argue against that?
JMS: …but such things occur for people with no faith.
USG: I agree. People find moments of deliverance from all kinds of things, completely outside of seeking God. But in science, the presence of another causal factor is not, in and of itself, a proof to dismiss the other. The empirical fact that “faith based” rehabilitation of convicts demonstrates an exponentially higher likelihood of zero recidivism is a more powerful argument than your statement.
JMS: …inclusively, people of faith can commit reprehensible acts rivaling those of nonbelievers.
USG: As I stated in a previous post. Just because you call yourself a Christian, does not automatically qualify you as a “person of faith”. The tired old argument that the priest who molested 36 boys from his parish over a period of 20 years, is somehow an argument that people of faith are capable of great crimes is patently absurd. It would be like saying, some oranges can taste like tomatoes. The very nature of a “person of faith” is not to commit crimes. Show me a man who harms children, criminally and routinely, and I will show you there is no faith in that man.
JMS: …those points aren’t conclusive for me.
USG: What would be conclusive? If I took you to the white house, sat you down at the iron fence, knelt and prayed, and the whole building lifted from its foundation and was set down and balanced on top of the Washington Monument, would that be conclusive? Or would you require God himself to appear before you and beg you to come back to him? Would you need to see someone raised from the dead?
JMS: an intellectual excuse for your moral life? im not sure what you mean exactly. are you saying you couldn’t rationalize being a good person without religion?
USG: That’s an interesting question. I was knee deep in religion, and religion actually gave me my intellectual excuses for my moral life. It wasn’t until I actually began a “relationship” with Jesus Christ, that my moral life turned around. On the outside I was white as snow, but inside I knew I was as corrupt as anyone who wore their sins on their shirt sleeve. It wasn’t until I understood the worth of my life apart from God, that I fell down on my knees and pleaded with him to come into my life. Its like the difference between having an aquaintence and having a close friend.
JMS: ..im not sure if youre implying that im searching for some meaning in that sense, but im not. im able to appreciate and understand life just fine without religion.
USG: That’s actually a good place to be in. I find religion empty and void, even vain.
JMS: …i used to be a christian, and i have given the bible a serious look - several, actually.
USG: Pardon my bluntness. But the Bible says that actually becoming a Christian is a literal transformation. (2 Cor. 5:7) Anyone who says they “used to be a Christian” is actually saying, “I was a religious individual at one time in my life, but I quit.” The statement that you used to be a Christian, from a Biblical perspective, is like saying "I used to be a bear, but now I am a man."
JMS: …oddly enough, the more i learned, the less it made sense. and here we are.
USG: I liken this last sentence to this: (please correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds familiar to me, so I am going to take a stab)
A man walks into an electronics store desiring to buy all that he needs to build himself a two way short wave radio. He imagines all the fun he and his son will have, talking to one another without having to pay for phone bills. He asks the clerk, “What do I need to buy in order to build a shortwave radio?” The clerk, drawing on his vast experience as an electrical engineer, fills the man’s shopping cart with all he needs. The man returns to his house, and begins to build his radio.
When he finishes building it, he turns it on, only to discover that it doesn’t work. No matter what he reads, who he talks to, he can’t figure out what’s wrong with it. Disappointed, he abandons his plan.
My guess is that the religion of Christianity didn’t “work” for you. So rather than doing a deep dive into the problem, you discovered that it couldn’t hold your interest and you moved on. Is it the fault of the radio that it didn’t work? No. It wasn’t built right. Is it the fault of the store keeper? Nope. He sold you all the parts you needed. Is it the fault of the parts maker? Nope, they all work fine. The mistake the man made, was having too much pride to see it through. His failure to go to someone who has successfully built a radio, and ask for help in diagnosing the problem, ended his dream of being a ham radio operator. What a needless ending…
The fact that you wind up with more questions than answers, and therefore you quit isn’t an indictment on God or the Bible. It is a shame to you, sir, with all due respect. The most important questions a man can answer for himself are, “Who am I?” and “What am I here to do?” If there is no life, beyond death, then who cares? What does it really matter. Because the dust will settle, the worms will have their fill, the grass will cover me over, and soon my memory will be a broken stone in a field of dreams long gone.
What happens to a man on earth, and what happens to him after he dies is not something for only intellectuals to ponder. It is a real issue that each man must reconcile to, if he is a man at all. Face to face, with God you will be without excuse. The fact you are not “finding” only means you are making a willful choice not to look, in spite of the evidence (and there is a ton of it).
I appreciate this dialog, please forgive me if I have offended in any way.

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"I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution." March 4, 1869, Grant's First Inaugural Address