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Originally Posted by ziggy
Welcome to the jungle concheet.
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Thanks
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Originally Posted by ziggy
I’ll start with the Non-biased / Neutral issue.
Just because I’m raising a few points about the Israelis imperfections, doesn’t mean that I’m pro-Hammas. Please don’t mistake my sympathy for 3.5 million people with the encouraging of terrorism or the killing of Jews. For whatever its worth, I’m Jewish and both of parents are Jews that were born in Israel (many of my family members, and good friends still live there).
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No I never suggested that you were 'encouraging' terrorism or Jew-killing, just that your posts appear to me to be apologetics for it. Regarding your bio, I make it a habit of totally disregarding what other posters tell me about who and what they are, since it is unverifiable, and rather listen closely to the substance of what they post. I believe that minimizing the suffering of one group and maximizing (and rationalizing) the suffering of another is a form of bias.
Furthermore, I believe that when you blame Israel for who and what the Palestinians are, you are effectively diminishing the Palestinians as human beings, and suggest that they are unable to take responsibility for themselves, but are rather perennial victims who can do nothing or become nothing by themselves. I don't buy that. I think we are all responsible for our own actions, even though it may be harder if you are born into a rigid culture milieu such as Islam.
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Originally Posted by ziggy
What international laws have the Israeli government broken recently? Are you suggesting that violence on one side is permitted and that the other side is supposed to turn the other cheek?
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I don't buy the argument that because one side does something the other side is supposed to return the favor. By that argument Israel would not bother to attempt to distinguish between civilians and militants, for example -- and Israel does try to do so, despite the fact that Palestinian militants do not wear uniforms to distinguish themselves from civilians. By that argument Israel would be totally justified in bombing marketplaces just to kill Palestinians, as the Palestinians try to kill Israelis. But no, I do not think Israel should turn the other cheek. A country has a duty to protect its population from attacks by others.
I do believe that the Palestinians should try to solve this problem with talks and negotiations, ie peacefully. But Article 13 of the Hamas Charter says specifically :
- Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."
This is not the fault of Israel.
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Originally Posted by ziggy
Since I’ve been to Israel (and you obviously haven’t) I will tell you first hand that you have an unfortunate misconception about an Israelis life in Israel. If you haven’t heard, Tel-Aviv is considered one of the top 10 party/nightlife cities in Europe… I wonder where they would place Gaza city on that list.
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I notice that you didn't comment on the 8 year old boy that lost his leg in Sderot yesterday and will not be partying for a long time if ever. Talking to you is like trying to believe that
these things never happened!
There is nothing stopping the Gazans from partying to their hearts' content except themselves. They prefer to make pipe bombs from the sewer pipes and destroy the greenhouses and burn the synagogues.
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Originally Posted by ziggy
So keeping them caged is going to help them how?
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Help whom? If you have a wild animal, you either keep him from getting at you by a cage or neutralize him some other way... what do
you suggest?
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Originally Posted by ziggy
I’m not sure I follow what you’re suggesting in terms of “Course of action” to UN-radicalize the 3.5 million populace of the Gaza Strip & West Bank. You can argue that the majority of Palestinians are pro-violence and the majority of Israelis are pro-peace, but I promise you that I will give you some numbers about the Israeli side a little later on.
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I don't know what will unradicalize the Palestinian Arabs except themselves. We are all responsible for our own selves, as I have said.
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Originally Posted by ziggy
With that said, I would appreciate a source in regards to “The majority of Palestinians being pro-violence”. The fact that they have only two parties (which equally suck) doesn’t mean that 3.5 million people believe that all Jews must die and Israel has no right to exist, and even if most Palestinians are anti-peace (which is possible in it's current suggested form) I’ll continue to argue that it’s easy to radicalize people when they live in horrendous conditions as the Palestinian people do, and that it’s a humanity issue that needs to be addressed both by Israel and the international community ASAP.
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Are you kidding? The 'international community' has been addressing the issue for 60 years. In fact, they have been addressing it to the detriment of other serious humanitarian issues such as the situation in Sudan, Kenya, Congo, Chad, Haiti. In Haiti they are eating dirt cookies.
The Palestinians have their very own
UN organ (UNRWA) and the rest of the world's refugees have
the other one. Palestinian refugees have more advantages, make more money than any other refugees in the world. In other places more people are killed, more people displaced, more woman are raped, more children are kidnapped, more people are hungry.....
I will address the rest of your post in a bit...