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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
So you believe the fetus is an object, not a person.
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I did not say that. The fetus is in every way a human, but it is not a human being/person. It is not an object.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
What exactly changes between the time it is still attached and the time it takes it's first breath?
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It becomes dependant from the mother, and can survive without her aid.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
So you would have no problem with people experimenting on a 9 month fetus, so long as it never actually takes a breath.
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I have no problem with abortions in the ninth month of pregnancy, if this is what you are asking.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
By those criteria, human beings do not deserve rights until they can at least walk.
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A newborn child can survive without it's mother, a fetus cannot.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
Um...why?
You just said the fetus is just an object. If that is true, why would the mother think twice about removing it? Explain why the decision is hard.
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I never mentioned the word 'object' in my previous post.
The decision to have an abortion is a life changing one. The decision to keep a child is also life changing. It is a hard decision, deciding which is the better option, which you would be better equipped to cope with. It is not a decision made overnight, it takes a lot of thought and consideration.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
No offense, but I don't recognize you as the official spokeman for all women. You have no way of knowing their motives.
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No offence, but you don't know the motives for abortion, eithor.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
Pedophiles are making the exact same argument in defense of pedophilia.
Many white supremacists believed (and some still believe today) that black people are not really people, so killing them shouldn't count as murder. Thats why they let people off (via jury nullification) who lynched blacks.
Explain why they are wrong, but you are right.
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Black people are human beings/people just like you and me, because they are dependant beings. They have been born, and personhood has been established.
Peodophiles are a different story. Peodophiles do not molest fetuses, the molest children, who are dependant beings.
This is what the pro-choice argument comes down to. Independancy vs Dependancy. A fetus is dependant, a newborn infant is not.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
If you are secure in your beliefs, why do you care if they picket? You dont feel guilt, right?
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I would not feel guilt in having an abortion, but then, I have never had an abortion, so I do not know how I would feel if I made the choice to have one. But whether or not the woman feels guilt is no reason for her to be insulted and called 'baby killer' when she enters the clinic.
There is simply no excuse for people to picket abortion clinics.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
Hyperbole. No one is making the argument that women should be forced to take a child to term if it will kill them in the process. The vast majority of abortions are not because the woman's life is at risk.
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It does not matter whether the womans life is at risk. It matters that the woman is able to make a decision about her life, her body. No woman should ever be forced to gestate against her will, no matter her motive for wanting an abortion.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
Why does it matter to you if the fetus is just an object anyway? I assume you are in favor of allowing abortion even if the child is perfectly healthy, right?
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Yes, I would be. I may not agree with the reasons why some women have abortions, but it is not my place to interfere. It is not my life, nor my body.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
I don't care. The reasons are irrelevant. Because IMO, the fetus is not an object owned by the mother. So the "why" never even enters into it for me.
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The fetus is 'owned' by the mother. It is in her body, therefore she has ownership of it.
It may have it's own body, it's own heartbeat etc, but this is irrelevent. It is a non sentient, dependant being, and for as long as it is inside the mother, she has ultimate control over it.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
I would not be in favor of allowing a mother to kill a 2 week old infant either, and for the same reasons.
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Killing a two week old infant would be murder. This is different. As I have explained before, a two week old can survive without it's mother. It has taken a breath, and is considered a person. To kill a person is murder.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
What do they have to feel bad about?
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I don't know. I just know that abortion is not an easy decision to make. I do not know the reasons why women have abortions. Perhaps they have them because they feel they have no choice? Perhaps this makes them feel bad? I don't know, and I don't think anyone could know but the women who have made such a decision.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
Peta tries to make me feel guilty about eating meat all the time. It has zero effect on me. Want to guess why?
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Meat is not sentient, nor can it respond to pain. Meat is not human, so this is completely different.
For the record, I don't listen to PETA eithor. Soon they will be exposed for the people they really are.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
By your logic all children should be aborted.
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I never said this, I just said that it may be better to abort than to give birth to a child whose future is uncertain.
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior
There is actually a waiting list in the US for infant children to be adopted. So that argument is a little empty.
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There are an estimated 1.5 million abortion in the United States per year. Are there 1.5 million people on the waiting list for adoption?