Gonna have to guide me here. You'd get my pin because I'm out of mind with fear, and you'll be easily able to test what I say. How often is the same true of the information gathered from those being tortured?

As Senax's post- yeah getting your people used to being under the effect of tortue isn't a new idea, and doesn't mean the activity isn't torture when used for its normal function. Its irrelevant what your enemies do, you're supposed to set your own standards- above such factors.

Torture doesn't mean saving innocent lives, theres a chance it will- it still doesn't change the nature of the beast- the act itself is still terrible. Even if it saved the world as consequence, the act doesn't change.

btw Toby, your 1st posts seem to me to be against waterboarding(descrptive, oldinfo part, long list of questionable admissions), yet they've been taken for support. Could you clarify your position?