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Originally Posted by Toby
Then who is at fault with all thoes people you claimed that have been killed in Iraq? WHO IS AT FAULT!!! HUH? ANSWER THAT GENIOUS! AND IF YOUR NOT GOING TO BLAME OUR TROOPS THEN BLAME OUR ENEMIES! AND IF OUR ENEMIES ARE SO CAPEABLE OF COMMITTING SUCH HORENDOUS ACTS THEN SHOULDENT WE BE FIGHTING THEM? GET A CLUE!
DONT FORGET TO ANSWER MY QUESTION! WHO IS PHYSICALLY AT FAULT FOR ALL THOES DEATHS THAT YOU POLITISIZE SO WELL!?
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I have already answered these in the previous post. I feel no need to repeat it when you miscalculate my answer. You only want an argument, not to see other perspectives.
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Originally Posted by Toby
YOUR SAYING THAT ALL THE SUCESS WHAT WE SEE IN IRAQ IS BAD BECAUSE WE SPENT ALOT OF MONEY? YOU REALLY WANT US TO FAIL THERE DONT YOU. AND IRAQS GDP HAS NO CONNECTION TO AMERICAN MONEY! WE LIFTED THE FREAKIN SANCTIONS AFTER WE INVADED SO THEY COULD TRADE! BUT ONCE AGAIN YOUR TRING TO DRAW A NEGATIVE FROM A POSITIVE. IF IT WERE UP TO YOU THE PLACE WOULD BE OVERRUN BY THE MUJ AND AL-QUIEDA!
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How are thousands dead a positive? This is my argument. Do you approve of the lives lost in Iraq? That should be the question here. And yes, the success is from $$$$$$, and troops securing it.
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Originally Posted by Toby
SO I GUESS THAT YOU BLAME THE BOMBS NOT THE PEOPLE WHO CALL THEM IN? TELL ME SOMETHING! HOW MANY BOMBS HAVE BEEN DROPPED ON IRAQ IN THE PAST 2 YEARS? HOW MANY BOMBS HAVE BEEN DROPPED ON CITIES THAT ARENT OVERWHELMINGLY RAN BY INSURGENTS? YOUR EXTREAMLY SHALLOW FOR BLAMING OUR TROOPS FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE TERRORISTS! IVE NEVER SEEN A US BOMB DECAPATATE A WHOLE FAMILY! IVE NEVER SEEN AN US BOMB BLOW UP AT A JOB FAIR OR ELECTION CENTER! IVE NEVER SEEN AN US BOMB BLOW UP IN A CROWDED MARKET PLACE! IVE NEVER SEEN A US BOMB KIDNAP A WHOLE IRAQI FAMILY. IVE NEVER SEEN AN US BOMB BLOW UP NEXT TO A COALITION VEHICLE THAT DID NOTHING BUT INJURE ALL THE IRAQIS THAT WERE NEAR IT! YES DUMMY! YOU WANT TO BLAME THE BOMBS THAT OUR TROOPS CALL IN TO SAVE LIVES NOT THE IED'S, VBIED'S, SUCIDE BOMBERS, OR OUR ENEMIE WHO OBVOUSLY MURDERS THE INNOCENT TO GAIN INFLUENCE. WHAT A FREAKIN RETARD!!!
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It seems those who use the words 'retard' the most, well, I'll let others decide. And again, it is our fault, everyone involved, from calling the bomb to its release, if it kills innocent civilians. Otherwise, who would you say perpetrated it? The terrorists?
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Originally Posted by Toby
SO YOUR SAYING THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO ATTACK US BECAUSE WE INVADED??!! IS THAT IT!! YOU SYMPOTHISE WITH THE INSURGENTS DO YA!!?? WHY SHOULD THEY ATTACK AMERICANS?? THERE IS NO REASON!! WE ARE BRINGING THEM DEMOCRACY AND INVESTING IN THERE ECONOMY. JUST LIKE MOST IRAQIS WANT IN IRAQ! YET ONCE AGAIN YOU BLAME BUSH AND THE TROOPS FOR THE ACTIONS OF OUR ENEMIES WHO HAVE NO REASON TO ATTACK US AT ALL! UNLESS YOU ARE SAYING THAT WERE JUST A BUNCH OF TORTURING, RAPEING, MURDERERS, WHO ARE OPPRESSING THE IRAQI PEOPLE WITH NO REGUARD TO HUMAN LIFE? IS THAT WHAT YOUR SAYING? ELTS STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR OUR ENEMIES!
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Okay, let us look at both sides here. If religious fundamentalists in the US were attacked by, say, an Islamic nation. They would revolt, maybe more than others, who knows? It has nothing to do with the regime, or the powers that be. It is simply retaliation on an influx in their lives, their land. I don't approve of them, I don't sympathize, but I can at least open my mind enough to realize
how and why they are doing these things. If we never find the fundamental problem, there is no logical reprisal except 'blow them up'. This just makes them angrier and inflames the situation.
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Originally Posted by Toby
oh
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Originally Posted by Toby
great! Thats just great. Now Ive got you down forn the "itas all Bush's Fault mentality and you reply by saying "well... its mostly Bush's fault"" ?? WOW! Please. If you want to feel three inches tall make sure you click on this video.
YouTube - Statements by Democrats on Iraq |
I like this point you make. Bush is our commander in chief. Meaning, all actions of our militaristic involvement lead ultimately to him. Other generals and officers also have approved of the war, which is what I was referring to here. Two generalizations on your part (I'll leave out your thinking I was a civilian from earlier) - first, you claim I said 'it's all Bush's fault' and changed to 'it's mostly Bush's fault'. Secondly, I am not a democrat.
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Originally Posted by Toby
Are you saying that Saddam broke no UN resolutions? Read the 1991 case fire agreement! It spell it all out for Saddam. DISARM AND SHOW US THAT YOUR DISARMING AND YOU WILL BE LEFT ALONE! IF NOT YOU WILL BE INVADED! DO I NEED TO SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU? THE UN DIDNT STOP US FROM INVADING! MOST COUNTRYS BACKED US!
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I never said this. Maybe the problem between us is you like to generalize and stereotype. A typical American way to live, don't worry. I hope you can understand the anger in my first rebuttal as you accused me of being a disgrace to my country. This has worn off now, and I wish to continue this in a civilized manner.
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Originally Posted by Toby
McCain was talking about a military base or perhaps overwatch! AND I AGREE WITH HIM! We are allready bringing the troops home!
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This is not relevant to the main argument, let us leave it to another thread.
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Originally Posted by Toby
Its called training the Iraqi Army to take our place! Do you not understand this mentality? Have you served with these guys? In some cities we have allready turned full cities over to them and we have moved in to an overwatch position! As soon as the Iraqi Army is at full strengh and training they will take our place! Have you not heard of this concept? Our job is to hold Iraq untill Iraq can SUCCESSFULLY deal with the terrorist themselves. Pulling out irresponsive not only undermines the Iraqi people but it also undermines our national security!
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When did I say we should immediately pull out? I think we have another problem here. The problem again, is you associate me with liberal pacifists. I simply advocate better solutions to problems, without people dying. If it takes me posting what I have for people to realize this, so be it.
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Originally Posted by Toby
BUSH BUSH BUSH! You can blame Bush all you want but no one in the world in his position would have done a better job! No war has gone as planned and we have less US casualtys in this war than any other long scale war in history! You can complain about polocys all you like but you wont find any politition that would have done a better job!
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I do agree, I would not want any other commander in chief for the security of our nation. I would, however, like a more reasonable commander in chief fighting a war. One who recognizes the importance of limited involvement during a time of new world order. One who holds the 'imperial presidency' post under thorough check by congress and strives for the position to be as such.