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Originally Posted by Publius Infinitum
FYI: Without regard to how you define it, "Rights" are a result of power... In that it is power that can defend that right. Whether or not you believe in God, as a finite being, you are subject to his whim and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to escape his power or his authority; period. Thus God is the final authority...
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Originally Posted by JeffLV
Which of course assumes there is nothing beyond god, that would make THAT the final authority. And also rests authority on the power to control, something you only believe in only to the extent that that power is god. Rather bias in my opinion.
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Yes it does assume there is no power greater than God... I think I made that quite clear, yet you feel compelled to repeat it as if there was some lingering doubt in my position... Power inevitably gets down to control sport... It's synonymous... The thing about God, like the US, which in my view is why the US has been so blessed, is that he provides basic rules, expects you to follow them and once you've played through holds you accountable for you own behavior, chosen by you, executed by you, whereupon he rewards of punishes, based upon YOUR own decisions and actions.
God, as I stated not nine or so times, is the final authority, my rights rest on that authority, why should I concern myself with lessor authority?
Yes I expect God is rather biased... Such seems perfectly reasonable.
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Originally Posted by PIThis is the basis on which Rights endowed by God are the only true Rights... God grants you one right: the right to life;
[QUOTE=jeff
Says who? You? So are you proclaiming yourself a prophet, speaking to and of God? How do you know god wasn’t lying? Maybe he finds all this worshiping and obedience to be rather funny and entertaining, and will get an even bigger laugh when he casts all of the bible thumpers down to hell. You don’t know the motivations or nature of god, so don’t but words in God’s mouth.
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Oh my, a rather pathetic appeal to authority... Ya know Jeff, I was just thinking, IF I were the purest essence of evil and I were trying to sway others to my evil ways... I'd do it precisely as you're doing it here...
Its quite stunning, really. Tell me, do you see yourself as being truly evil or has this thoroughly escaped you?
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Originally Posted by PI
This is the basis on which Rights endowed by God are the only true Rights... God grants you one right: the right to life; which by extension and through one's proper maintenance of that right one is entitled to fulfillment of that life to the extent that is possible given their means... but all are rightfully entitled to that rightful life equally.
As an atheist you feel very strongly that you are the ultimate power and that the sum of yous.... the collective, the State, is thus the ultimate authority and it is here that you are dead wrong. Humanity has much to say about what government power decrees, it's whimsy... As government is possessed by humanity, it can be destroyed and created anew. Such is not the case with God, now is it?
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Originally Posted by jeff
What’s your point? Government is merely the means to and end, not and end. And just because you don’t like something, that doesn’t make it untrue. It is the collective interest, the very purpose for joining together into society in the first place, that establishes the final authority under this view, not the whimsy government that does a crappy job trying to enforce it.
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The point Jeff is that the only valid purpose of Government is to protect the God given rights of the collective sport... not to strip him of those rights as is the case where leftist find power. For instance Jeff, you may have heard that some people now have the right to the product of the labor of others; this established by federal decree... When Jeff in reality, there is no principle wherein anyone has the right to the product of another, except where the other has expressly and specifically given their consent.
Tell me Jeff, do you know of a principle where upon one individual has the right to the product of another man's labor without his specifically expressed consent?
Well... of course you do not... yet you will likely advocate for the Universal Healthfare so common among the dimmer bulbs.
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Originally Posted by PI
This is why the Opening Premise is designed the way it is; as there is no greater threat to liberty, to that rightful life than that represented by the atheist left...
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Originally Posted by Jeff
Look closely at what you just said, Sport. There is no greater threat to liberty, or in other words the freedom to act as you will, than that represented by the atheist left… so being obedient to the “final authority” is not, in absolute terms, a forfeit of all liberty? You are answering only to god in everything you do, that is by definition devoid of any liberty.
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Ahh, so you're rejecting God because he's an infringement on your liberty, but you're perfectly fine with a pack of human imbeciles having control over you...? ROFLMNAO... Jeff that was a given when you initially implied your atheism... It's who you people ARE! That's the whole foundation of your absurd ideology. When in fact, where God is concerned, you've absolutely no choice... God has GIVEN YOU LIFE... He's GIVEN YOU FREE WILL... You're free to do with that life whatever you will. And upon that great gettin' up morning you'll be held accountable and based upon the info I'm working on... you'll spend forever being tormented in agony.
Now I expect that somewhere along the line in forever... I expect you'll figure it out... my guess is the instant you stand up for judgment.
Now as to whether God represents a limit to my liberty, yeah... I expect he does and one I joyfully accept. He is my creator and considering that without him I wouldn't even be hear, I figure I owe him nothing less. It's a great deal as far as I'm concerned. It's people having power over me I reject.
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This is not a hard concept, sport. We’ve gone over this many times. The state is not the final authority on the rights. If they say we have no rights, then they are defeating the very purpose they were put together. The people have the right to destroy that such state and replace it with another that does fulfill the purposes of the social contract.
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Says who? YOU? (LOL... Don't ya love the other edge?)
Jeff no one gives a darn what you say... no one is going to run to the sound of your voice... "FOLLOW ME FRIENDS! IN MY OPINION THERE'S A SOCIAL CONTRACT AND IF YOU RISK THE ONLY LIFE YOU HAVE, WE CAN DESTROY THIS GOVERMENT WHICH FAILED BECAUSE OF POLICIES INHERENT TO THE SAME SOCIAL CONTRACT (WHICH I SUPPORTED BY THE WAY) AND WE CAN BUILD ANOTHER GOVERNMENT! BUT A BETTER THIS TIME! WE'LL DOUBLE TAXES AND THAT WAY WE WON'T RUN OUT OF MONEY TO SUBSIDIZE YOUR LAZY, GOVERNMENT TIT SUCKLING, ADLE-MINDED @$$&$!
Bad News sport... There is no such thing as a social contract... that is a farce of the lowest order; it is nonsense snatched directly from the leftist ether. You have one right, the right to life and that's it.