Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver
Maybe you majored in Philosophy or something, I don't know...what exactly are we debating again?
Oh yes, prove God exists...ontologically, in other words quantitatively.
|
No, the discussion is not to prove that God exists. That was several pages ago. A few posts ago you started criticizing logic, and I'm pointing out that you don't understand what logic is to begin with. This is a debate over logic, not God. The original subject line of the thread is irrelevant at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver
You are semantically avoiding the debate.
You have not grasped that Logic is a human construct, it's foundation does not exist outside of human experience. That is not a Universal Truth.
aka
"it's all in your head dude" isn't just a Euphemism.
|
Of course logic is "in my head" (though more correctly, in my mind). There is no such thing as truth outside the mind either. Truth only has meaning within logic, within the mind. It appears you not only misunderstand logic, but you also misunderstand what "truth" is.
Logic is a human construct, but it is a model of the fundamental methods with which we naturally think. Doubting logic is to doubt human thought entirely. This seems unwise, since the human mind seems to have resulted in improved survival ability over other creatures, so there must be something to it.
Truth is also a human construct. It is a property that nothing but
statements have. A statement is true if it is an axiom, or if it logically derivative of a set of axioms. (Where an axiom is any statement that is definitely true given your choice of a source of knowledge... such as empiricism or a certain faith.)
Given this definition of truth, what's true is dependent on the observer. "God exists" is neither true nor false to me, because it is neither an observation nor a logical derivation of observations. "God exists" is true to you, because it is a fundamental axiom of your faith.
Now, we both have our fundamental axioms, which are not consitent with one another, but we can both use logic to derive further truths from these axioms.
For instance, it is true to you that God is good. Therefore, it is true to you that God is not evil. That is a logical deduction.
I disagree with the premise of this logical deduction, but the deduction itself is valid.
Now, when I say "absolutely true", I don't mean "outside my mind". I only mean that it has a 100% chance of being "true" (for the observer). When I say absolutely, I am speaking of the level of certainty, not the degree of applicability, i.e. that it is true for every set of axioms.