Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Jakkyl";p="
In all fairness I really didn't word that the way I wanted to. As I am not so much an advocate in the practice of organized Religion. I do however encourage most everyone that I meet to seek out a Personal Relationship with God. Those that have tried to impose legalistic morality do as much damage as a person that holds an AK-47 to your head and forces the worship of allah.....
|
Agreed on the last part, and no problem with the first part. My wife believes in a God without subscribing to any religion. Me, it's obvious that things got started somehow. If people want to anthropomorphize whatever force did that as God, fine. I don't see the point, really.
Quote:
|
So a better way to word it is that I can't fathom the concept of living a decent life ie: working hard, helping others, properly raise a family, be a good spouse...ect. without the idea of a good set of values. That through time we have developed a good sense of what is right and what is wrong. We know this because of the way we are wired (ala 'created'). For if we acted as our natural instincts would want us to act, we wouldn't marry, we wouldn't care about our fellow man, we wouldn't work any harder than we wanted to. How many other mammals on this planet care for their own species like Humans do? If you are anything other than a human, then it's every 'being' for itself. Can you imagine what a chaotic world it would be if EVERY person acted like that?
|
A couple of thoughts:
1. We are social animals. We do a lot of things in order to fit in with (and derive benefits from) society. Whether wired or culturally instilled, I agree that it goes deeper than personal choice. But that doesn't necessarily require religion or God.
2. Marriage is a social construct that confers benefits, notably societal approval, relatively steady access to nookie, help in raising children, etc. It also strengthens relationships between different groups of humans. That's why marriage, for much of its history, was more of a family-level strategic move than a romantic notion. There are many reasons to get married, all of them mundane. I don't believe, and I'm married with two kids.
3. Caring about our fellow man is part of being social creatures. By helping others now, we can expect their help in the future. Society builds that expectation into the culture, and enforces it with social acceptance. It's one of the things that defines social animals. I don't believe, and I care about my fellow man even in the abstract. In part, that's because I want to be thought of as a nice guy: Societal pressure at work. But mostly it's because I believe that a society that doesn't care about its people is doomed to fall. I don't steal (even accidentally; my wife thinks I'm an ethics freak when I spend another 15 minutes at the grocery store trying to get an undercharge fixed), or kill, or rob, not because I believe in God or fear (*)(*)(*)(*)ation, but because doing so harms society. Again, belief has nothing to do with it.
4. Working hard. Most people, regardless of belief, work for mundane reasons. For some, it's a paycheck. For some, it's because they love the job. For some, it's an ethic instilled by culture or family. For some, it's because they'd be bored otherwise. I've never noticed a particularly strong correlation between belief and devotion to work. I don't believe, and I'm a hard worker.
5. Lots of animals mate for life, form large societies, and demonstrate altruistic behavior that benefits the species if not themselves personally. Trust me on this one; my daughter is 4, and we watch a LOT of Animal Planet.
There will always be people who are immune to societal pressure, don't see the need or the gain in being accepted, and act only for themselves. Just as there will always be people who are so buried in societal acceptance that they never question what needs to be questioned. Both impulses can be destructive or, at times, constructive. But again, that has little to do with religion or belief, other than that religion is one of many levers that help enforce societal norms. But it is not the only lever, nor even the most important one. And it is easily abused.
People who ignore societal pressure may also be the exceptions that prove the rule. Such people are rarely as successful as they might otherwise have been.