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Originally Posted by NotAmused
With respect, it is an overly simplistic and in many cases an unrealistic concept though.
The systems we have in place ensure that regardless of education, work ethic, or the state of the job market overall, to enable a proportion of society to become wealthy, there has to be a proportion of society that remain low paid.
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why does that matter when everyone has the same opportunity to get rich? am i supposed to feel bad for someone that doesnt try as hard as me? as far as im concerned, if someone accepts a job at minimum wage then they sould expect minimum wage. if they want to be paid more they should try harder.
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If absolutely everyone did exactly as you suggest above, it would inevitably mean that we would just see more refuse collectors with a degree for example.
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actually, you would probably see automated cars picking up garbage because there would be more engineers to figure that kind of stuff.
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It is important to understand this, if absolutely everyone worked harder as you put it and if absolutely everyone got a better education, it would not change anything. There would still have to be a proportion of society in low paid jobs, regardless of effort.
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yeah but that doesnt matter. everyone gets the same chance to get ahead. if youre not getting paid enough its your own fault. i shouldnt be paying you more just because you dont think its fair. that youre not as successful.
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One also has to think about the academic capabilities of some within society, not everyone is the same.
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andwhat percentage of the population do you think that is? and again.. should they be paid more out of pitty? no.. you dont have to be smart to be successful.
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Some people are just not able to academically shine, this does not make them less of a person does it?
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it makes them less of an intelligent person. believe it or not, intelligence matters.
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Does this mean it is their own fault that they have to struggle to feed their families, to make ends meet. Does this mean they should have to work 2 or 3 jobs just to keep their heads above water?
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thats exactly what it means.
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What about the vulnerable in your society, those who for a myriad of reasons are not capable of bettering themselves, the situation is not black and white, this is the problem.
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what about them? are you suggesting i should feel sorry for them? i dont think so. again, veryone gets the same opportunity. ust because they cant grab the opportunity doesnt mean that i should feel bad for them.
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Some people can work extremely hard and still get absolutely nowhere, the economic systems in place, by their very nature will always ensure this is so, for a considerable percentage of society.
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they can get other jobs. nobody is forcing them to work in the same (*)(*)(*)(*)ty place. thats why you have freedom of choice. if youre not getting paid enough go somewhere else. move if you have to.
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To try to make sure that those who fall into the very low paid category, are not left behind, I see no moral reason why they should not at least, be paid a livable wage.
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why would you want to try to make sure? in other words it doesnt really matter if you work hard for a lot of money or if you work fairly easy for a decent ammount.. also, if they should be paid a viable wage, that should be at the discression of the employer. you shouldnt force someone to pay someone else more then the employer thinks its fair. like i said. if you dont like how much youre getting paid, get another job.
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The UK model has shown that it does not have to be a bad move, far from it.
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then let those that dont like it here move to the UK. nobodys stopping them.