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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2008, 11:56 AM
illinest illinest is offline
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Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts View Post

This is where I differ from both major parties, because the Dems simply want more regulation, and the Reps simply want less. Economics is not that simple.
HOLY CRAP QFT

@midcan you either misunderstand me as thinking that all regulation is bad OR you yourself don't understand how regulation can be bad.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2008, 01:48 PM
CRIMSON MASK CRIMSON MASK is offline
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Originally Posted by Sly View Post
Check it out, the sub prime mortgage problem didn't start raising it's head until Bush's home ownership initiative in 2002. I doubt any of sub prime mortgages under Clinton are the problem. It's only in the last few years.

We need change and McCain doesn't offer it.
Well the left pushed for lending to the poor and with
Democrats like Franks and Dodd in pivotal positions your assertion looks very foolish.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2008, 01:52 PM
CRIMSON MASK CRIMSON MASK is offline
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Originally Posted by terrorist View Post
Neither I, nor about 80% of people in America believe that Obama is the change they need, but that is what those who control the media presented us as a secondary choice, and that is all we have.
Great reason to vote for Obama. McCain has proven he'd lead the country and do what's right even if he had to go against his own party. McCain has also demonstrated courage, sacrifice, bravery in war, and 20+ years serving the people in politics.

You can't put in words what John brings to the table overall. Obama is unproven, has a shady past, and zero accomplishments that qualify him as President.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2008, 02:06 PM
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TheHat TheHat is offline
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Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
Change only means something in the actual policy positions of the candidate. I am voting for Obama because of his positions on UHC, Women's rights, the illegal invasion of Iraq, tax policy, social security, outsourcing, environment, drilling, education support, and the supreme court and other judge positions. I feel he represents a better average citizen point of view even where most disagree with me.


A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.
The bolded part makes no sense, since Obama is the one pushing for government sponsored health care. Under such a system, individuality gets taken out and replaced with a collective approach.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2008, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TheHat View Post
The bolded part makes no sense, since Obama is the one pushing for government sponsored health care. Under such a system, individuality gets taken out and replaced with a collective approach.
I see you're up to your usual standard of acuracy ie complete and utter bs.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug_yvr View Post
I see you're up to your usual standard of acuracy ie complete and utter bs.
I have read all that before Doug. It is nothing but bullet points.

How does he implement it? Who is he calling the "average" family?

All his website does is create more questions then answers.

He riddles off a page of great sounding bulletpoints. He really does.

But there is nothing there with substance. It is all rhetoric.

This is my point.

He has a 4 step plan for everything under the sun, yet never says how he plans to implent it.

Saying your going to make insurance companies take in people with pre-existing conditions is going to automatically make insurance companies raise premiums for the added cost of those individuals.

And please save me the "your against sick people" horseradish. The insurance premiums we pay, go toward the sick people already, not the healthy. Simply mandating companies to take more cost on, which is government stepping into it, is going to make it more expensive.

The man is a bulletpoint artist, I will give him that, but his Kelly Blue Policy Book, is a joke. It is bulletpoints which are just rhetorical talking points.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2008, 03:12 PM
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Obama holds many good positions, he is an admirable person in his achievements, he is motivating and captivating, and I certainly would have nothing against a black president, but I do not think this is the time to play around with his economic policies. The country cannot afford a mistake in the economy, and that is why I am voting for Bob Barr. He will defend my liberties and has good economic policy.
They're both populists, like Hitler, Castro and the rest of them. Granted they're not extreme but Barr is just another big government opportunity hijacking the libertarian party and part of the movement. And Obama is simply a good looking, charismatic young man that has no principles and will do anything to get more power for the government and the special interests he represents.

Moreover, why do you support Obama? The pro war, pro patriot act candidate? What nonsense from a libertarian.

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Of course ideally. Corruption can not be anticipated until the person is in office.

Actually, Republicans believe in moderate regulation. We (Libertarians) tend to be totally against all government involvement, although we have some moderates that are closer to Republicans.
What nonsense.

Power corrupts, it's that simple. Now of course, government cannot help the economy or society in anyway even if they were perfectly altruistic, but as they're not we don't even need to worry about that.

However, you're just plain wrong, governments favour economic fascism. That is, colluding with big buisness to further both of their interests by means of a regulated economy, fiat currency. Moreover, neocons favour a welfare state just as much as their democrat counterparts, albeit, one under their control.

By the way I'll repeat what I've said a million times, your views are not compatible with libertarianism: that is adherence to the NAP. Do you know how regulations are enforced? You're no libertarian, you're a conservative lite.

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taking money out of the economy, whether by hoarding or hiding or whatever, hurts everyone.
Do you know what causes economic growth? Savings, you can call it hording all you like but it's the cause of all increases in standards of living.

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That could be debated. It is true for the most part. Somewhere just shy of total freedom is where we should be. There is a comprimise between control and freedom, but when you have a little too much of one, you get what we have now, where you have quick and violent fluctuations. This is magnified when your controls are mismanaged, like what has happened to us.
Don't be silly, why do you assume that government is able to control the economy? It simply isn't, it's a violent institution that operates through coercion, so, even if government could manage the economy it would still be immoral to do so.

However, the burden of proof is on you to show that government can manage the economy so get to it.

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Differs depending on who you talk to. Most Libertarians believe that it is the government's job to prevent them from forming.
Maybe the conservatives posing as libertarians do, the sincere libertarians however understand the symbiotic nature of the relationship between big buisness and the state.

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The Anarcho-Libertarians feel confident that monopolies could not form in a truly free market, and thus government does not need to prevent them.
Anarcho Libertarians is a silly term, although it's better than Anarcho Capitalist. In any case, the market anarchist understand that monopolies are the result of government intervention within the market place and realise the silliness of attempting to use government to cure what it creates.

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"Cannot" is a pretty weak principle to rest a case on.
Since when?

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his is where I differ from both major parties, because the Dems simply want more regulation, and the Reps simply want less. Economics is not that simple.
That's just not true, Republicans don't want less regulations. And yes, economics is that simple. Regulation can never benefit the consumer.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2008, 04:06 PM
illinest illinest is offline
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Originally Posted by Rothbardian View Post



Do you know what causes economic growth? Savings, you can call it hording all you like but it's the cause of all increases in standards of living.


"Saving" money doesn't take it out of the economy.
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taking money out of the economy, whether by hoarding or hiding or whatever, hurts everyone.
If I was talking about saving I would've SAID saving.

Don't bring me into your recycled fights, and especially not with that kind of rude attitude.

Last edited by illinest; 09-30-2008 at 04:07 PM.
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