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Originally Posted by Whaler17
The Islamophobe moniker is a misnomer! I am not afraid of all muslims. I do recognize that their religious text that they hold sacred calls for them to tolerate no other beleifs and use all means neccessary to rid the world of those who do not beleive the same things they do..
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I never said you were. I used the label to describe people I have seen arguing in the manner I described.
But on the other hand... if you assume that the killing is inevitably part of the text and an immutable part of Islam... how would you not be an Islamophobe exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaler17
If you do not agree with my assertion above, take a look at the various Muslim sects. Why do they actively try to kill one another? It is because of the intolerance of different beleifs.
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Why do a majority of Muslims not kill anyone?
Why do communist guerillas, military juntas, various faith-based revolutionary movements around the world, and strange lone wolves from the midwest kill people?
Terrorism's roots are always in the lust for power, control, and material. Religion and ideology are the rationalizers. Abstract thoughts are far more mutable than the need for material or the lust for power.
You want to know why there are Muslim sects killing each other? They think that is the way in which you gain control and take power.
It's actually not much different from gangs in the inner cities of America... and like in that case, a scared majority remains silent... all the while being labeled as evil themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaler17
Now take a look at Christianity. There are numerous divisions within the Christain Church, but NONE are trying to kill one another and most agree that, while we differ in our beleifs slightly, nobody knows which (if any) of us is actually 100% right. .
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None? You're not looking hard enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army
You're mixing up religion with society. Most Christian groups are in the West... the "modern" countries, places with history of democracy, well-off populations... great places to live.
But shoot over to subsaharan Africa... and there among some violent Muslim sects you'll also find violent Christian sects. Why? Because they are in chaos... just like in the Middle East.
Underdeveloped and exploited by years of colonization... the ethnic groups in long-lasting feuds exacerbated by current tensions over power and resources.
And then check out Latin America. What religion do you think most guerillas identify with in that part of the world? Similar to inner city gangs (themselves basically terrorists)... self-proclaimed Christians. Try telling them otherwise. I dare you. Then run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaler17
I realize that it is convenient for atheists to view all religions the same. Its a lot like Left wing leaning people categorizing and labeling people to keep there little world simple and neat. But the truth is that all religions are not the same! Islam is marked by violence everywhere it exists. Budhism isn't! Christianity isn't!
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All people label things. Conservatives enjoy overgeneralizing liberals as well.
I never said religions are the same. They have differences. The differences are directly related to history.
But the phenomenon of religion... It's universal. The reason people have religion... universal.
The success of religion is always dependent on those reasons. And the specific history of a group will determine how those religious needs are met.
And even then there are differences like catch-phrases, weird metaphysical things, sex mores... but those have nothing to do with war.
The mistake you make is thinking history is over. History is ongoing. Religions will continue to adapt and develop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaler17
So simplifying your viewpoint in order to dumb the world down to a level where you easily understand it is no way to actually come to an understanding of what is actually happening.
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Who is simplifying?
You're mistake is believing that "comparative religion" is applicable.
That would be true if the goal was to worry about whether some people believe in some living god-person messiah or some prophet. Maybe you care about that... but I don't.
You're getting mixed up on who is simplifying.
You're only looking at one variable of human existence: religion. You assume that is the variable that matters. You seem to be assuming that what is written in text is immutable.
While written religions are more resistant to change... they still change.
Really look at how Christianity has changed over the centuries. It changed. Written or not.
Islam has also been different in different places at different times.
But the thing is... I don't really care what people think of God. For me the issue is violence and strife. To really look at it requires looking more at how humans act.
It requires noting the differences between Muslims who kill and Muslims who don't... and the similarities between Muslims who kill and other religious/ideological groups that kill.
You'll find the greater similarity is terrorism itself. Religion is a red herring. Religion is an excuse.
But to be honest, I think people are just too invested in religion to admit the scary things in this: that members of another religion can live in peace... that religion does change over time... Scary stuff to people invested in a specific religion.