Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuatara
Even though the US military is NOT defending America. They are defending the pockets of war profiteers and oil companies.
Again, they are not defending...at all.
How do you know? Maybe he or others have volunteered their time and services in other ways. Not being a part of one of the worst crimes against humanity in the last 20 years is a lot better than supporting it or being a part of it.
It would be wrong not to.
I disagree. I believe their actions will cause more terrorism and more animosity towards the western world. In a sense they are making the world more dangerous.
By invading non-threatening countries and causing much aligned hatred towards the western world? That is not protection.
Not at all. I stand true to my beliefs.
How so? I can't speak for Big Red but I've written letters, signed petitions, voted for anti-war candidates. Also by spreading information on the internet you are able to know that giving more information to others you hope they can make a more informed decision about the state of the world.
Yes. Violence that is not needed. violence that will not solve anything but make matters worse. We have been saying this since the beginning of Iraq and we were right. Things in Iraq are much worse.
Exactly what? Protest, speak out, write letters, sign petitions, join advocacy groups?
I would still say the same things face to face and I have.
I saw a bumper sticker in Arizona last August that read "My son is in Iraq so you can have your Freedom" I asked the guy to explain to me how his son was obtaining the freedom (which we already have) from Iraq which never threatened it. When he couldn't he got all belligerent, threatened me with violence, called me a few names and drove off.
In Canada here we have bumper stickers that read " If you are not going to stand behind the soldiers try standing in front of them." Anytime I see those propagandist slogans I challenge those people face to face.
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Well consider this a face to face challenge then...
I agree with you that some people take it WAYYYY too far with their "support the troops" slogans. We agree on that.
We are also probably in agreement that the Iraq war wasn't a very good idea.
However ask the people of France how they won their freedom after Germany invaded them. Ask the English people who it was fighting the Germans. Ask ANY nation that has been attacked who it was defending their freedoms or even their way of life and it always has been the soldiers who have done it.
Without a military force you are completely vulnerable to any aggressor who would choose to invade your nation and steal your resources. Yeah you COULD go the Ghandi route, however against a guy like say Hitler that wouldnt do a whole lot of good now would it??
Furthermore someone who serves DOES deserve respect for the simple fact that they are choosing to do a job that will never make them much money at all (the pay sucks as a matter of fact) and where they quite possibly will be putting themselves at great personal risk of injury or even death.
I served proudly in the United States Marine Corps and served in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I supported our actions in Afghanistan 100% and im (*)(*)(*)(*) proud of the job we did over there. Those people over there (especially the women) were leading a miserable existence even by their standards and we are at least giving them a chance at some level of happiness. It was the work of Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen who have provided them with that opportunity (lots of great Canadians as well btw). Maybe it wont work out, and certainly going to Iraq didn't help, but still great progress has been made over there and again im (*)(*)(*)(*) proud of it.
Iraq was a different story, I didnt agree with going over there and when it came time to re-enlist I showed my disapproval of that war by not re-enlisting. Still though I hope every single day that we get the job done over there so that they can have a better life.
Do you think that ANY single person serving in ANY military service around the globe wants to go somewhere and be shot at?? No they dont. Sure there are some who have watched too many movies who get excited about it, but once you experience it once its not something you look forward to.
These people do it because they feel its the right thing to do, and they want to serve their country. I had a 3.7 GPA in high school and pretty decent test scores. I could have gone straight to college, but instead I wanted to serve my country and also follow a family tradition of service. My grandparents on BOTH sides came to the United States as immigrants from Ireland and both of my Grandfathers proudly served during WW2 because they loved this country. I have that same sort of devotion to this country and even though im no George W Bush fan by ANY means, I would do it all again in a heartbeat.
Its certainly not for the money, and its certainly not for the "fun" of basic training or being deployed and kept away from your friends and loved ones.....Its because you love your nation and want to do your little part to ensure that if called upon that you are there to keep your nation safe.
Now I have NEVER asked anyone to thank me and I welcome debate when it comes to the opinion that you have. Personally I was only involved in one "battle" I guess you could say, and I know that when it comes to service to my country that I didnt do anything that even remotely approaches the amazing heroism of the greatest generation and what they endured during WW2. You dont have to respect me just because I served. I would hope that I could earn someones respect after they have gotten a chance to know me. I only mentioned my experience to give a backdrop for what im debating.
However you were essentially making the point that the troops in general dont deserve respect, and I personally think your being short sighted because your only focusing on recent events. WW2 may seem like ancient history to those of us who are in our 20's or whatever. However one of my Grandfathers only just died a few months ago, and the other one is still alive. So are MANY others around the globe who WERE true HEROES from that era and who's heroism really did save the world in many respects. I guarantee to them it doesnt seem like a lifetime ago, it probably seems like it was just yesterday. I cant imagine what they endured, but I remember my experiences like they just happened so I imagine its the same for them.
So SOME troops DO deserve praise. Others deserve respect, and all that people like me ASK is that you dont group us in with the less than 1% of troops who generate bad publicity.
I know this is a long post, and I want to apologize to everyone for it. However I do want to cover one last thing....
I think that remark you made to the father of that soldier was pretty much a b*tch move. So what if you dont agree with his politics?? You just disrespected a father who probably misses his son and he is trying to show his support for him in his own way. Does the politics of that one man truly have any real bearing on your life? Regardless of how you feel about Iraq, you just insulted a man who's son is in harms way.
I dont know you and so im not going to judge. Your probably a really nice person.... But I have to be honest, and if I was that guy I probably would have put a first class beating on you for that.
Im actually a pretty liberal person, but when it comes to things that are THAT personal I think you should leave your opinions to yourself and instead just express them at the ballot box.