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Originally Posted by klipkap
Your main thesis is that Israel has a valid right to exist because Jews lived in the Ottoman empire at the time of it's demise (with the Armistice of Mudros in 1918 ). Correct?
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That and the promise of the British Administrators/conquerors and the World's only Legal body at the Time.. League of Nations.
And not to forget.. there was the 1919 Agreement OF THE Head of The Arabs.
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The Weizmann-Faisal Agreement
January 1919
His Royal Highness the Emir FAISAL, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of HEJAZ, AND Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organization, mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realising that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations, is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine (the JEWISH one), and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the following articles:
Article I
The Arab State and Palestine (the JEWISH One) in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in their respective territories.
Article II
Immediately following the completion of deliberations of the Peace Conference, the definite boundaries between the Arab State and Palestine (The Jewish One) shall be determined by a commission to be agreed upon by the parties hereto.
Article III
In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the British Government’s Declaration of the 2nd of November, 1917 (Balfour Declaration-SEH).
Article IV
All necessary measures will be taken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such measures the Arab peasants and tenant farmers shall be protected in their rights, and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development.
[....]
Take your pick of sources
And of Course there were Plenty of Jews already in Palestine by this Time.
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1) On what precedents of International Law do you base this asssertion, namely that residence gives the right to new statehood?
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Well gee Klipkap.. there isn't much Intl Law on this at all.
So you intentionally pose a non-sequitor/fallacious/strawman question. Sleazy tactic.
Nonetheless...
Rarely has there been a 30 years promise, agreement of the Leader of the 'other side', Faisal, and finally a vote of the successor and yet a Second Intl Body, the UN!
How many States have that kind of legal underpinning?
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2) Even if we were to accept your thesis (which I dont due to the total lack of supporting facts, contrary to your mantra that you have supplied them in more than sufficiency to prove your case) in which of the Ottoman administrative units were the Jews in the majority?
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Just One as previously documented.
But as also previously documented, 2/3 of what became Israel was State Land, passing from the Ottomans to the British to The Jews.
Taking care, in fact,
to give Israel the sparsest most Arid Parts, including the HALF of that country that is the Negev Desert.. again, owned by No Arab.
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3) Why were they given a vast amount of territory greater that their "majority" territory?
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Not 'Vast' in any sense. Less than promised originally and again- the crappiest parts.
Above? Tel-Aviv founding 1909. Note all the displaced... er.... Scorpions?
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4) Where do you get the statistic that the Arabs were given 99% of the Ottoman empire
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I Have already documented the Arabs got 87% of the British Mandate alone:
See my reply to Foolo here doing Just that:
Palestinian loss of Land 1946-2000
Maybe you can do the math for the other few percent now? I hope?
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5) What was the REAL legal basis for Israel's creation - the real source, not some acquired authority?
6) Did this source respect the promises made to the two parties in the current conflict?
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5, already covered above.
Israel was at least as legitimate as Capricious British creations such as Jordan and Iraq, and unlike them and others.. were voted on by a World Body.. the UN. (not to mention it's predecessor again)
How many states have more legal underpinning than Israel? How about The USA?
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So, here is my summary from what I have read:
1) The creation of the State of Israel followed "due process"
2) This "due process" stands on shaky legal ground since neither the League of Nations nor its successor, the UN, had any right to create international boundaries nor to take land from one people and give it to another group. However, this "shakiness" was not upheld in the International Court during 1948 treatment of the petition of the Arab countires.
[If anyone can find a good reference to this case in the International Court, I would be most grateful]
3) The fact that the creation of the State of Israel has a measure of legal underpinning does not mean that it was JUST. ...
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All covered above.. but you of course are going with non-sequitor and Fallacious Logic here- asking for 'Due Process' where virtually no precedent existed, but where in fact it was indeed given, by both sides and a TWO World Bodies over 30 years.
In fact, that's Unprecedented Due Process.
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Given all of the above, where do I stand. Firstly, stop the Myths that try to show that the Zionists are pure law-respecting peace-loving people who only accepted what is rightfully theirs, both in 1948 and... with the Arabs never having made any serious effort to seek peaceful solutions to the conflict. That is simply not true.
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It certainly IS true.. unless you'd like to document Arab attempts at Peace and recognition from 1948 to 2003 the 'Saudi Peace Plan'. LOL
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So much for 1948. What happened then?
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Note despite tons of BS there is Still no rebuttal to my statement (despite quoting it and promising an answer with more time) about where the vast majority of the Refugees came from... and that would be the Arab-Started War in 1948, NOT the partition, Resolution 181 which created Israel.
Will there be anything else?