Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > General Political Chat > Political Opinions & Beliefs


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2008, 02:32 PM
Shiva_TD's Avatar
Shiva_TD Shiva_TD is online now
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Yakima WA
Posts: 3,315
usa us washington
Shiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 173,865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silence_Dogood View Post
When Democracy was first created, it was seen as radically different than anything the world had ever known. Prior, Authority was granted because of a "Divine Right of Kings". In Monarchy, Authority was passed down through blood-lines or family ties.
You confuse the founding of America with the creation of Democracy by the Greeks thousands of years ago.

You are correct that America was really the first country to free itself from the Divine Right of Kings in that it rejected religion as the basis of government. This alone has been often cited as the greatest political accomplishment of the United States. No longer was God the basis of government but instead the People were the basis of government.
__________________
Soldiers swear to protect and defend the Constitution with their lives.

Politicians swear to protect and defend the Constitution with someone else's life.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2008, 02:37 PM
Silence_Dogood's Avatar
Silence_Dogood Silence_Dogood is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Free Radical in the Nervous System of Organism Earth
Posts: 190
newzealand us ohio
Silence_Dogood has a spectacular aura aboutSilence_Dogood has a spectacular aura aboutSilence_Dogood has a spectacular aura about
Credits: 1,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiva_TD View Post
You confuse the founding of America with the creation of Democracy by the Greeks thousands of years ago.
I wasn't confused with this -- I was just talking in terms of contemporary Western history. Mainly, the French Revolution that spurred a more broad Democratic Revolution in Europe and America.
__________________


When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. - Benjamin Franklin
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2008, 03:34 PM
alexg's Avatar
alexg alexg is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 958
usa us alabama
alexg is a splendid one to beholdalexg is a splendid one to beholdalexg is a splendid one to beholdalexg is a splendid one to beholdalexg is a splendid one to beholdalexg is a splendid one to beholdalexg is a splendid one to beholdalexg is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 5,013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
I tend to think a democracy with a liberal culture and constitutional limits to protect minorities is about as close as you can get, unless there is an extremely homogenous population (which is not likely).
In order to have a government for all there would have to be total consensus on the answers to pressing questions.
Actually our current system comes close to that by pushing hard for compromise. Compromise dulls the wants of the majority but does not give minorities all they want either, thus everyone leaves unhappy... but better off than they'd be if the other side won.
There's no way everyone can be happy.
Well there are ways to make our government more representative. What we have today is the tyranny of the majority. (actually a minority since most people don't vote.)

One idea would work like this. Take the US House of Representatives for example. In each district the top 2 or 3 candidates in terms of votes would all be elected and would cast votes in the House based on the number of votes they received in the election. We'd have more Reps but all or most of the people would be represented instead of just the winners of the election.
__________________
You know all that stuff you learned from listening to Rush Limbaugh and Bill ORielly? It's all a lie. Pass it on.

Last edited by alexg; 11-17-2008 at 03:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2008, 03:45 PM
Tngz Tngz is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 17
Tngz is on a distinguished road
Credits: 325
Default Government of consensus in democracy

At first a government is necessary to ensure public security. And it evolutes with coordination of solidarity assistance among economic production sectors of the society . In the advanced phase it is an issuer of unemployment checks, idleness citizen and permanent resident checks, maternity checks, old age security checks, "crisis period" adjustment checks etc ... with adequate and reasonable responsibilizing conditions (job training, job registration, social duty drafts etc ...) and prospective and merit factor considerations (levels of education, seniority of citizenship, duration of past services, amount of past achievements etc ...) . It is also a re-equilibrating agent to moderate excesses of citizens to avoid repetitions of undesirable situations, to enhance peace and to build a more human nation and world . With exceptional cases and in general expectably ,elected parliamentary individuals in proper procedures of democracy with its formal institutions should be able to take votes and devise watching mechanisms on government measures as proposed by the elected executive (or congressional peers) with public observation and judgment (press, civil assotiations, citizens' movements , opinion forums , etc ...). So if procedures are well arranged, a government will be able to take decisions based on a consensus or synthesis of different major options and other respective ponderations . Whether a government is from a party with a majority number of seats or from a coalition of many parties, a government is a government with its responsibilities to be carried out ,making the society moving toward based on rational, reasonable orientations of possible policies for the sake of public interests.

The role of public government will be minimal if civil service and law-making procedures have been routinely established with statistics, records, service schedules, revision methodically etc ... Bettably, the number of legislators and of public administration workers will be greatly reduced if that is an objective by a government . A governmentless society is not quite a solid bet but an organized democratic anarchy for citizens' public services is a guarantee toward citizens' freedom and conditions for citizens (of individual excellence or of collective strives) to realize useful and prestigious ventures for their own heritage or the public appreciation, - subjective or objective, in nations or humanity of seriousness with civil protocols and formalities of laws and regulations.

Actually part of traditional government cumbersomeness has been greatly reduced with development of technologies such as heavy traffic controls ...
A free society is one that functions with unspied but well parametered flows of services for human fellows, whether they have a job or stay in an idle, neutral responsible position.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2008, 05:33 PM
Idris Idris is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 15
Idris is on a distinguished road
Credits: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silence_Dogood View Post
The next radical step, in my mind, will occur when the Citizen realizes that neither 1 King who is given Authority from his father, or 435 Legislators who are given Authority from his brothers and sisters are adequate means to ensure justice and protect liberty.

In both cases (Monarchy and Democracy), the Legislator has authority over the Citizen. The next step ought to be the Citizen recognizing that only he has Authority over his self. The next step ought to be the Citizen taking Authority over his life back from those to whom he once entrusted it with.

This is obviously a general dream -- I don't know the details of such a Government, but I don't doubt it is possible.
Human beings are individuals and at the same time social creatures.

As individuals, every adult is a sovereign - no body can rule over him without his consent.

As social creatures, human beings enter into intimate relationship with those that they have the same understanding and aspirations of life.

A true community is a community of people held together by intimate love.

There is no community without a direction and leader. A true community have the same direction and can have a rational leader that is acceptable to all.

Why are people not allowed to form their nations at will or to belong or leave a nation at will?

Instead of people brought together by manipulation, while shouldn't we be thinking of nations made up of like minds?
__________________
Do not oppress and do not allow yourself to be oppressed

Last edited by Idris; 11-17-2008 at 05:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 12:39 PM
TastyWheat TastyWheat is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 63
usa us texas
TastyWheat is on a distinguished road
Credits: 334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by **FreedomFighter** View Post
As a minarchist, I think a government for everybody is possible. I just think that it's not what most people imagine. It's a government that stays out of our lives and allows us to succeed or fail as our own responsibility and determination allows us to do. This government would also take on limited responsibilities that are fair to all people. Examples: defense, protection of freedoms, courts, prisons, infastructure, etc. There are more details, but that's my idea in a nutshell.
That sounds good and vaguely familiar... very vague.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2008, 03:06 PM
**FreedomFighter**'s Avatar
**FreedomFighter** **FreedomFighter** is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 59
usa us alabama
**FreedomFighter** is on a distinguished road
Credits: 330
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TastyWheat View Post
That sounds good and vaguely familiar... very vague.
Yeah, I know it's vague. I didn't think anyone would want me to throw out the details, but I could try if I get some time. My biggest problem is that I wonder if America has moved too far away from the idea to be able to acheive it, though.
__________________
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
-Thomas Jefferson

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
-Samuel Adams
]
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Govt Has 642,233 Cars - Plus Chauffeurs SweetnessBlog Political Blogs 0 07-31-2008 01:10 PM
Our current govt. is not an American govt. notasheeple Political Opinions & Beliefs 0 05-24-2007 10:09 AM
Keys To The US Govt Computers rota Political Opinions & Beliefs 0 07-04-2006 09:56 PM
The role of religion in governement Rebellion Current Events 8 06-16-2005 07:02 PM
Reckless spending and big govt. Gian55 Current Events 38 02-11-2005 07:15 PM

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden