Originally Posted by catzmeow";p=&quot

They were in the hands of the Iraqis, which is the direct opposite of "being secured."

Wrong-o

Quote:

The explosives, known as HMX and RDX, are extremely powerful and have a variety of uses, including detonating nuclear bombs. Because of that potential, the explosives were among the material that the United Nations' International Atomic Energy Agency took under control after the 1991 Persian Gulf War

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...94_wmds27.html

Quote:

So these were not WMD as per Bush's own definition, as the UN and the CIA knew about the Al QA Qaa facility from the first Gulf war

Actually, I'm fairly certain that the substances (Tabun) were prohibited by the terms of the UN agreement and that Iraq wasn't allowed to have ANY of that substance. Thus, they were in possession of illegal WMDs by virtue of having that substance on Al Qaa Qa. That also was one of the substances which Iraq had stockpiled, and of which quantities were failed to be accounted for and destroyed.
I responded to this using your own post as evidence - so Look uo, Catz

Actually, again this is where you are wrong - the materials themselves were not labelled with the IAEA seal, but the bunkers themselves. So this in itself is misleading

http://www.registerguard.com/news/20...ives.1026.html

Iraqi officials reported to the International Atomic Energy Agency - the U.N. monitoring group - earlier this month that the explosives were looted after April 9, 2003, when U.S. forces entered Baghdad. IAEA officials verified that the explosives were still at the site and under seal in January 2003, the last time the inspectors were there.

The IAEA had been monitoring the material - known as HMX and RDX - as part of the U.N. inspections program following the 1991 Persian Gulf War.

The agency had issued numerous warnings about the explosives falling into the wrong hands, before and after the U.S. invasion. Pentagon officials said that while U.S. troops searched the facility on several occasions during and after the invasion, the facility was not high on U.S. commanders' list of key sites to guard because survey teams found no nuclear or biological weapons at Al-Qaqaa, a collection of 87 buildings and underground bunkers 30 miles south of Baghdad.

However, explosives, even this sort of "construction explosive" weren't forbidden to Iraq, and weren't the top priority given that there were 10,000 sites with explosives on them in Iraq

It would be a physical impossibility to secure 10,000 locations simultaneously with a million troops on the ground.

But again, if you read the above post - The Al Qa Qaa site was specifically requested by the IAEA to be secured by the US military. As you even included in your original post the 3rd infilitry division knew about it. The Facility was placed on a level 2 priority, less than the oil fields. I agree that not all sites can be secured, but then perhaps this raises 3 points:

1) Perhaps the US was incapable of succeedng in Iraq without the UN approval
2) The invasion wasn't properly planned out
3) The oil fields should have been placed at a level 2 priority and weapons facilities a level one

Quote:

Because some of the materials were also used in construction, they were allowed to keep some of the materials but only as per approval of the UN. So up until the war in Iraq, everyone knew about these materials, and every last bit was accounted for.

Accounted for, as being in the hands of Saddam Hussein. Very secure.

Good plan.

We should let these IAEA guys run more things.

Perhaps, in the future, they can secure botchulism cultures by placing them in the hands of Moamar Khaddafi. And then, they can secure enriched uranium by placing it in the hands of the mullahs of Iran. And then, they can secure some anthrax by placing it in the hands of Kim Jong Il.

Very secure.

What a misuse of terms.

Again, WRONG - not in Saddam's hands - I suggest if you are going to make such assertions, you should back it up next time

Quote:

Then On April 3rd, as you mentioned, the 3rd infiltry division went into Al Qa Qaa after the IAEA were told to leave,

Again, WRONG
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/301/...unit_at:.shtml


A U.N. official said Al-Qaqaa installation was believed to be the only site in Iraq where high explosives such as HMX, RDX and PETN were stored. When Iraq declared the explosives after the 1991 Gulf War, IAEA experts concentrated them at Al-Qaqaa so they could be monitored by U.N. nuclear inspectors, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

HMX and RDX are key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents in Iraq have used in bomb attacks. HMX is also a ''dual use'' substance powerful enough to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


The UN inspector on Lou Dobbs last night said the IAEA was asked to leave by the US - not Saddam - get your facts straight, Catz

Quote:

The explosives were housed in storage bunkers at Al-Qaqaaa. U.N. nuclear inspectors placed fresh seals over the bunker doors in January 2003. The inspectors visited Al-Qaqaa for the last time on March 15, 2003 and reported that the seals were not broken therefore, the weapons were still there at the time. The team then pulled out of the country in advance of the invasion.

(Same link as above)

LEaving more than a month for Hussein to have removed them himself. As he could have done at any time during the times in between iAEA inspections.

On the plus side, some 600,000 tons of similar materials have been destroyed or will shortly be destroyed. Now, that is "securing" explosive materials.

But again, What happened to the missing explosives???

Wait! I thought they had been secured and Hussein had been left with the keys, AS HE ALWAYS HAD BEEN?

I guess I need to be more specific with you - From the time the 3rd infiltry division to the 101st infiltry division - the weapons went missing - what happened to them? And why doesn't anyone in the Bush administration know what happened to them?

Because like 10,000 other sites, it had explosives, but no identified (by IAEA) WMDs.

[b]I have already addressed this[/b]

Well, would you classify construction explosives as WMDs?

I would classify a weapons facility to have greater priority, in terms of securing, to that of oil fields to ensure the materials do notget in the wrong hands at a time of war[/color]

Because they were left in the hands of Hussein as was the standard practice for the IAEA. After all, we know Hussein was thoroughly trustworthy.

WRONG

Quote:

and how is it possible that No one knows what happened or who has the materials?

Do you really think it would be possible to remove 40 truckloads of explosives AFTER the troops arrived? Ergo, they likely were removed BEFORE the troops arrived.

WRONG

Further, and this is a critical question you need to ask yourself...WHY HAVEN'T THEY BEEN USED YET BY INSURRECTIONISTS IF THEY WERE LOOTED?

I don't know I'm not an insurgent

HOW EASY IS IT TO LOOT 40 truckloads of materials?

Sure, because they are CIA.

How long have you trusted the CIA to be honest with the American people?

Catz