Quote:
Originally Posted by DHard3006";p="
People that defend the militia bs must be full of fecal matter. They claim one thing to be in a militia then when asked about the people outside of the militia guide lines they spout more bs.
The fact is the 2nd amend states we can regulate the militias. The fact is the 2nd amend states the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed!
The people that defend the militia bs also state there are no regulations on militias. How do you have an organized or unorganized militia without some rules to how the militia members will be trained or disciplined? That means the militia rather organized or unorganized is regulated!
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What does well regulated mean.
As you say it has no beearring on the right to arms per say{having to be in one to have the right}. That was the point.
However the words well regulated are easily misplaced to mmean strict government control by the fed. Not exactly.
The Random House College Dictionary (1980) gives four definitions for the word "regulate," which were all in use during the Colonial period (Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, 1989):
1) To control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.
2) To adjust to some standard or requirement as for amount, degree, etc.
3) To adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation.
4) To put in good order.
The first definitionwhich is to controle by law was already allowed for in the constitution.There was no need to repeat that kind of regulation and it would have been uslessly redundant.As I said, private militias are and were illegal.Even these state militias today , id not sanctioned and controled by the state are illegal period.Here is thepart from Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, granting the federal government the power to regulate the militia:
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
This is allowed only if the states agree.If the fed is illegally trying a power grab the final sayso is with the states.In their enthusiasm to belong to a well regulated militia some attempted to define well regulated bythe use of definition number 2 ,"adjust so as to ensure accuracy." A regulated rifle is one that is sighted-in, keept ready and well maintained for use. However well regulated modifies militia, not arms. That definition is clearly inappropriate.
This leaves the last 2.As alexander Hamilton said in federalist 29;
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed29.htm
The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.
The Federalist Papers, No. 29.
"To put in good order" is clearly the correct interpretation of well regulated.To be a well disciplined, trained, and functioning militia.
Thismeaning is further bolstered by a quote from the Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 ;
Resolved , That this appointment be conferred on experienced and vigilant general officers, who are acquainted with whatever relates to the general economy, manoeuvres and discipline of a well regulated army.
Saturday, December 13, 1777
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(jc00964)):
or
b. Of troops: Properly disciplined. Obs. rare-1.
1690 Lond. Gaz. No. 2568/3 We hear likewise that the French are in a great Allarm in Dauphine and Bresse, not having at present 1500 Men of regulated Troops on that side.
from The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, (1989) where it defines regulated in 1690 to mean "properly disciplined" when describing soldiers.
It has nothing to do with laws by the fed controlling them over the states.This would have been a federal select militia{present national guard} and anathema to the founders very idea of liberty. and their fear of federal power.
"Collective rights theorists argue that addition of the subordinate clause qualifies the rest of the amendment by placing a limitation on the people's right to bear arms. However, if the amendment truly meant what collective rights advocates propose, then the text would read "[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the States to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." However, that is not what the framers of the amendment drafted. The plain language of the amendment, without attenuate inferences therefrom, shows that the function of the subordinate clause was not to qualify the right, but instead to show why it must be protected. The right exists independent of the existence of the militia. If this right were not protected, the existence of the militia, and consequently the security of the state, would be jeopardized." (U.S. v. Emerson, 46 F.Supp.2d 598 (N.D.Tex. 1999))