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I just recently watched that movie, and I got REALLY into it. But as the good student I am, I made sure I didn't just watch that movie and not check the facts.

Unfortunatly almost all the sources in that movie came from about 8 places. Out of those 8 places, most of them which are books, you will quickly see that the sources are completely unreliable. I hate to inform those who watched this movie and enjoyed it because of the "facts" but there is almost no connection between Horus and Jesus, and I wont get into the 9/11 thing and the federal reserve except to say, just check the reliability of those sources.

That's all.

How exactly do you discern a "reliable" source from an un-reliable source?

What do you mean to say when you state that "there is no connection" between Horus and Jesus?


Admittedly, I have not done a whole lot of research on the sources of the film. It is fairly easy to debunk one "conspiracy" theory on its own. But, should we really be looking at these events in isolation?

The parallels between what is happening now and what happened in 1930's Germany are absolutely frightening.

Our civil liberties are being systematically torn down.

Please read below and watch the Youtube video. We must EDUCATE and INFORM every citizen of this country as to what is occurring.

The ten steps to fascism:

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

2. Create a gulag

3. Develop a thug caste (Blackwater USA)

4. Set up an internal surveillance system

5. Harass citizens' groups

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release

7. Target key individuals

8. Control the press

9. Dissent equals treason

10. Suspend the rule of law

Read more in depth:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf...zrjF6InlI8izNK


We need to object to this and object loudly. We need to restore Habeus Corpus immediately.
Please help me in restoring our Constitutional rights before it is too late.

A good place to start is here:

http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServ...ctive_activism

My friends, please, We need to EDUCATE others as to what is happening.

Here is the full list of sources - a few more than 8.

PART 1


* Special thanks to Acharya S for her consultation for this section*
Massey, Gerald - The Historic Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree
Carpenter, Edward: Pagan and Christian Creeds: Their Origin and Meaning Book Tree, 1998
Acharya S - The Christ Conspiracy, Adventures Unlimited Press
Massey, Gerald - Ancient Egypt: Light of the World, Kessinger Publishing
Churchward, Albert -The Origin and Evolution of Religion, The Book Tree
Acharya S - Suns of God, Adventures Unlimited Press
Murdock, D.M. - Who was Jesus?, Steller House Publishing
Allegro, John - The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian Myth, Prometheus Books
Frazer, Sir James: The Golden Bough, Touchstone Pub., 1890
Maxwell, Tice, Snow - That Old Time Religion, The Book Tree
Rolleston, Frances: Mazzaroth, Rivingtons, Waterloo Place, 1862
Cumont, Franz: Astrology and Religion Among the Greeks and Romans Cosimo Classics 1912
King James Version, The Holy Bible, Holman
Fideler, David: Jesus Christ, Sun of God Quest Books, 1993
Berry, Gerald: Religions Of The World, Barnes & Noble Pub., 1965
Leedom, Tim C - The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read, TS Books
Paine, Thomas - The Age of Reason
Wheless, Joseph: Forgery in Christianity: A Documented Record of the Foundations of the Christian Religion 1930
Remsburg, John E. - The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence, Prometheus Books
Massey, Gerald - Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Mysteries of Amenta, Kessinger Publishing
Irvin, Jan & Rutajit, Andrew - Astrotheology and Shamanism, The Book Tree
Doherty, Earl - The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ?, Age of Reason Pub.
Campbell, Joseph - Creative Mythology: The Masks of God, Penguin
Doane, T.W. - Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, Health Research
Maxwell, Jordan: The Light of World (Film Series) IRES
Singh, Madanjeet: The Sun- Symbol of Power and Life, UNESCO, 1993
Flemming, Brian: The God Who Wasn't There (Film) 2005
The Naked Truth (Film) IRES
Jackson, John G. : Christianity Before Christ, American Atheist Press, 1985



PART 2
Griffin, David Ray - 911 The Myth and the Reality
Ruppert, Michael -The Truth and Lies of 9-11
Berger, Michael - Improbable Collapse
Avatar, LLC - 911 Mysteries
Hilder, Anthony J.- Illuminazi 911
Mugford, Dustin - September 11th Revisited
vonKleist, Dave - 911 In Plane Site
Hufschmid, Eric - Painful Deceptions
Rodriguez, William - What really happened on 9/11?
Zwicker, Barrie - 911 The Great Conspiracy
Duffy, John - 911 Press For Truth
Jones, Alex - Martial Law 9/11
Jones, Alex - TerrorStorm
Hilder, Anthony J.-The Greatest Lie Ever Sold
Avery, Dylan - Loose Change 2nd Edition
Humphrey, George - 911 The Great Illusion


** Important Reference Books **
Ruppert, Michael - Crossing the Rubicon, New Society Publishers
Griffin, David Ray - The New Pearl Harbor, Interlink
Griffin, David Ray - Debunking 9/11 Debunking, Olive Branch Press
Tarpley, Webster - 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA, Progressive Press
Griffin, David Ray -The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions, Olive Branch Press
Marrs, Jim - The Terror Conspiracy: Deception, 9/11 and the Loss of Liberty, Disinformation Company


PART 3
Perloff, James - The Shadows of Power, Western Islands
Marrs, Jim - Rule by Secrecy, Harper Paperbacks
Dye, Thomas R. - The Irony of Democracy, Wadsworth Publishing
Greider, William - Secrets of the Temple: How the Federal Reserve Runs the Country, Simon & Schuster
F.D.R.: His Personal Letters, Duell/Sloan/Pearce
Allen, Frederick Lewis - "Morgan The Great"/ Life Magazine - 4/25/1949
Simpson, Colin - The Lusitania, Little Brown
Pool, James - Who Financed Hitler: the Secret Funding... ,Pocket Books
Epperson, Ralph A. -The Unseen Hand
Sutton, Anthony C. - Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler, G S G & Associates Pub
Sutton, Anthony C. - The Federal Reserve Conspiracy, G S G & Associates Pub
Allen, Gary - The Rockefeller File, 76 Pr
Lundberg, Ferdinand - America's Sixty Families, Citidell Press
Mcfadden, Louis - On the Federal Reserve, Congressional Record 1934
Allen, Gary - The Bankers , Conspiratorial Origins of the Federal Reserve, American Opinion
Larson, Martin - The Federal Reserve
House, Edward Mandell -The Intimate Papers Of Colonel House, Kessinger Publishing
Sutton, Anthony C. - Wall Street and FDR, Arlington House
Wilson, Woodrow - The New Freedom
Russo, Aaron - America: Freedom To Fascism (film)
Iserbyt, Charlotte Thompson - The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America, 3d Research Co
Stinnett, Robert - Day Of Deceit, Free Press
Security and Prosperity Partnership Of North America, spp.gov
Jaikaran, Jacques S. - Debt Virus, Glenbridge Publishing
Benson, Bill -The Law That Never Was
Griffin, G. Edward, The Creature from Jekyll Island, American Media
Grace Commision Report - 1984 - Reagan Admin

The movie is located here:

Watch it and decide for yourself.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Their sources are not unreliable. Much of the criticism of these sources is clearly irrational and biased - as I pointed out here.

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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer

Indeed. Someone clearly has an agenda to attack this film... Thanks, roguepatriot.

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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer

I was afraid this post would come, instead of looking it up for yourselves you wanted to criticize me.

Okay, you guys seem eager to attack me here. But let's just go with the first part. I was under-exagerating when I said 8 sources. However, most of those sources listed, although all of them are used, most "facts" come from a concentration of about 8 of those sources (the number isn't really exact since I haven't looked at it all). For example I can assume that what Thomas Paine said, Thomas paine said or what the bible says is what the bibles says, I am not going to go fact checking if they truly used the King James Bible. I didn't check every last source that came from that movie, I don't have the time, but I had enough time to check the first part, because the second part I had already checked and made up my mind.

The first part:
These were the first three sources from the first movie. A lot, if not most, of the "facts" presented in the first part of the movie came from these three books.
Massey, Gerald - The Historic Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree
Carpenter, Edward: Pagan and Christian Creeds: Their Origin and Meaning Book Tree, 1998
Acharya S - The Christ Conspiracy, Adventures Unlimited Press

Any good scholar would immediatly check to see if these books are legit or at least what they presented in that movie was truthful. Granted, I never read any of these books, but I read excepts and tried to get a feeling of what they were conveying because I didnt want to waste my money. Just a simple search for Horus in wikipedia or your basic encyclopedia will reveal that there is no connection between Horus and Jesus. Horus is being confused with about 4 other egyptian gods. A good critique of Acharya's book is
http://tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html

Although that last sight isn't really "reliable" it at least has truths that are reliable and can be sourced.

Basically what Zeigeist is in the first segment is a portrayal of Jesus Christ's mythical background. Although I am largely agnostic and partially atheist (don't ask) I was excited to tell all my Christian friends "YOURE WRONG!" But I wanted more proof other than what this movie, provided because it was like trusting a Michael Moore film with facts, you just have to check to sources in case he flubbed something up.

So I went searching for academic critiques of the first three books, and boy did I get a hell of a lot of finds. I wish I had kept all the sites saved as favorites but I can't find any right now. But what I do remember is that a lot of this history is over 100 years old and much of it has been disproven. What it was, was an attempt to link Jesus Christ directly to Pagan beliefs. Although many Christian beliefs came from paganism, the link was never proven and after much debate it was finally accepted by most scholars that the link did not exist (ex Horus and Jesus). If you don't believe me, look up some scholarly work on this subject, it is actually very interesting.

What I also remember about Acharya's book was that her publishing company was Health Research Publishers'."the world's largest publisher of rare and unusual books" (quote from their website); these are essentially books that cannot get published elsewhere. In this case, it was a book that was so outdated and poorly sourced that she published it with Health Researcher.

As for the other two books and many other books on that list, they come from "The Book Tree" publishing. On their website it says "We provide controversial and educational products to help awaken the public to new ideas and information that would otherwise not be available. We invite you to browse through our extensive website with an open mind." Now, this doesn't discredit these books right away because they are "contreversial," but if you kindly visit their site you will see that many of those books are pretty conspiratorial or at least "out there" (extra-terrestrials being one of the books). So citing these as academic sources in a documentary isn't necessarily a good idea.

The second part:
I had made up my mind about this section before I even watched it, so that's why I really decided to look up the facts after this documentary. No, I don't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy by the government to blow up the WTC. I had read too many scientific journals that "debunked" the myths concerning 9/11 not to mention the practicalities of the situation. Why would Bush have Osama Bin Laden be the sponsor of the attacks with all Saudis, Jordanians and Syrians and yet no Iraqis? Why set up a scenario that has no links to Saddam Hussein, yet claim later that bin Laden and Hussein are connected?

By the third part, I paused and started searching so I never got to it. It might be wrong and it might be right. What I remember it saying is that the Federal Reserve is completely a "private organization," which is just plain wrong if you know anything about economics. Yes, it is true that that it is partially privately organized, but it is accountable to the federal government for many things and it was set up by the federal government.

But please, don't attack my post because I think most of this documentary is unreliable, go out and look for yourselves. That's the point of a documentary, it isnt supposed to really tell you all the facts, it's supposed to spark you interest so that you will look for yourselves. Don't take my word for it, just do your own research. By the way, I didn't use any "zeitgeist debunking" websites, I went straight for the reliability of the sources.

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See my previous link for my take on some of these interpretations. I'm not going to parse through what "virgin birth" could equate to on every single one of these, but the fact is, there are many similarities in these myths.

Look, the point is CHRISTIANITY IS A CONSTRUCT. That is quite easy to discern.

For example, the Bible contains many inaccuracies and stories of impossibilities such as a talking donkey:

Numbers 22:28-30, NAS
28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?” 29 Then Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you have made a mockery of me! If there had been a sword in my hand, I would have killed you by now.” 30 And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey on which you have ridden all your life to this day? Have I ever been accustomed to do so to you?” And he said, “No.”

Have you ever seen a talking donkey? If you say "yes" you're crazy. They don't exist, and never have.

Organized religion is a tool used to control people. All the religions are an attempt to explain God, but they ultimately place power in the hands of religious leaders instead of teaching true spirituality.

We had a longer debate on this subject here.

My mind is still not made up on this section either, however, as I'm checking the sources on this one, I'm having trouble refuting many of them.

Take the first one - "No Warnings" - Bush, Condi Rice, and Cheney clearly stated there was no way anyone could have had warning or known they would fly planes into buildings. I checked each of those newspaper articles with warnings from various governments, and the fact that our own government had run exercises involving planes flying into buildings at an earlier time. SO SOMEONE IS LYING ON THAT POINT

Look at the reasons Karen Kwiatkowski gave for leaving the Pentagon. She tells you about the deception used by the administration in misrepresenting intelligence reports here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1oPEfa9Lws

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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer

Truthbringer:

I am going to make this short because I have to go.

I looked at it actually, and it seemed to be going along with the movie, I wasn't interested in what the movie was saying I was talking about the sources of the information and the history of linking paganism to Christianity.

All organized religions are constructs.

Talking Donkey, talking bush. I am not going to argue wether or not the Bible is true or not, because I don't believe anything the bible really says. To me its more a series of anecdotes. There have been many books written on the bible and what the stories originated from. One deals with the political situation of Israel.

Religion in general is very complicated. I admit that institutionalized religion is a way of controlling people and providing social order. But there are many other occurances in religion that you have not explained such as the emotional connection people tie towards their "god." But this isn't a debate about religion.

Oh, in reference toward the Conspiracy, I was refering to the fact that the United States orchestrated and carried out the attacks of 9/11. Did the Bush administration know that these events were going to happen? Of course they did and I dont think there is any denying that. But they didnt take the warnings seriously for whatever reason that remains unknown.

Karen Kwiatkowski is an avid activist against the bush administration and its current policies and she is probably one of the few people to give a good inside glimpse into what was happening in the pentagon prior to 9/11. I have seen her in many videos and documentaries.

Thats all for now.

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