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Thread: Believer in the official version of 9/11 looking for hard proof of a conspiracy

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    Photographs are not the only evidence of the recovery of a 757 in Shanksville. You've been given the contact information of the people who were present. I suggest you contact them and listen to their testimony objectively.
    A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep

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  3. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fangbeer View Post
    Photographs are not the only evidence of the recovery of a 757 in Shanksville.
    Really? Well why don't you supply this other "mystery" evidence in the other thread? Failure to do so only makes you look like you don't have any evidence.

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    Failure to do so only makes you look like you don't have any evidence.
    Why would I have evidence? I wasn't involved in the recovery. You've been given the contact information of the folks who were. I suggest you contact them.
    Last edited by Fangbeer; Feb 14 2012 at 12:05 PM.
    A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep

  5. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fangbeer View Post
    Why would I have evidence? I wasn't involved in the recovery. You've been given the contact information of the folks who were. I suggest you contact them.
    Thanks for admitting you have no evidence that most of Flight 93 buried. Funny you believe in something you have no evidence for!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpet View Post
    This is what I am talking about- offhand one-liners that mean nothing.
    That's classic suede.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot911 View Post
    Give him evidence and he denies it. Give him eyewitnesses and he will come up with silly excuses like "no reporter saw him in the hole, therefore he is not a good witness". Back him into a corner and suddenly he will develop amnesia and demand links and start the whole process over
    You can see the same pattern repeated over and over again in the six threads he started on the subject.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/1...-good-one.html
    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/2...s-no-dice.html
    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/2...e-sources.html
    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/2...ad-buried.html
    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/2...ied-claim.html
    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/2...93-buried.html

    I'll say one thing for ol' suede. At least he is consistent.
    How nice it would be if everyone judged their party by the same high standards that they use to judge the other party.

  7. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpet View Post
    Don't waste my time with babble- I want facts- or interesting questions asked. I want theories and ideas. I am one-minded on this, but part of being open minded is listening to the other side's argument, so I will entertain you all.

    Keep in mind I did my own 9/11 conspiracy research years ago and found no conspiracy, so I am well-versed in the topic. Even hard entire volumes of 9/11 sites that aren't up anymore- mostly text with images somewhere so I took a hard interest at one point.

    So tell me your version of 9/11.

    Hello there.

    Is it true that you accept the official versions of the various events on 911 despite the lack of evidence? Can you tell me why you do that.. and yet you place much higher demands on the skeptics?

    In my view, 911 was an inside job, simply because of the bigger picture. That is.. who would gain from a "spectacular" on US soil. Who would gain from a decade of war and enemies to sell to the US public?

    Would a handful of muslim extremists gain from a decade of US invasions and occupations.. which was the inevitable consequence of such an event.. or would those who wish to pursue huge defence spending and a particular foreign policy gain more from the event?

    The propaganda that was sold to the US public after 911 .. the constant terror alerts and colour coding warnings... I do not believe that Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld or Rice or Wolfowitz ever made a speech that did not have terrorism at it's core.. no matter what the subject of the speech. The US public were sold terrorism terrorism terrorism for the entire 8 year term.
    It was a concerted brainwashing campaign to convince the US public that they were in danger and that only the Bush admin could protect them.

    So 1. The neocons gained from 911. 2. Their response was very revealing. ..pure propaganda and readymade wars.

    Now 3. The event itself remains shrouded in confusion with so many discrepancies that it is simply impossible to believe the official story.
    A. I have never seen 3 skyscrapers before or after ... collapse so perfectly. Has anyone? Building 7 is utterly bizarre.
    B. How did the 19 Muslims with boxcutters ..beat the trillion dollar US defence system. How after such a long time period did a plane breach Pentagon security.. which was on full alert... only to then hit the recently specially reinforced section...conveniently housing the "accounts" department. Why was it not shot down?
    C. Why is there no footage of the 19 muslims at the airport before they apparently boarded the planes? Why are none of their names of the flight lists?
    D. Is it not amazing that we have not heard any of the black box recordings...we are told that they were destroyed on the day.. and that the passports of the terrorists survived! Oh really?
    E. The supposed terrorists made as much noise as possible in the days and months leading up to the attacks. Is that really the behaviour of muslim fundamentalists planning a secretive attack on US soil?
    F. Can you explain the Transport chief's assertion that a young man rushed in to the Cheney bunker on a number of occasions... and on the last occasion asked "does the order still stand"?
    G. I tell you what.. there are 100 more unanswered questions...
    perhaps this will help you understand why the majority of Europeans and a third of Americans believe that 911 is deeply suspicious.

    http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html

    However as I said before... for me.. I simply follow the money and the behaviour of those in charge on 911.

    Who gained from 911.

    The answer is overwhelmingly obvious.

  8. #27

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    So who gained? What did ANYONE gain that would be worth the death of 3000 Americans and the risk of the lives of everyone involved in the conspiracy?

    Sure, it is easy to claim it was an inside job and leave it at that. Some of us demand a little more evidence than the word of yet another probable sock puppet. My apologies if you're not, but we seem to get an awful lot of people coming in here, being rude, being obnoxious, having only a handful of posts the vast majority dealing with 9/11 and then getting banned.

    So let's look at the obvious suspects.

    George Bush. Hmmm. He is out of power. He hasn't come into some huge amount of cash. What did he gain?

    Dick Cheney. He is out of power too. He hasn't come into some huge amount of cash. What did he gain?

    Big oil. Well, I've heard people say it was to gain control of the Iraqi oil fields. Hmmm. Iraq has control of the Iraqi oil fields. Gave a lot of the contracts to other countries. Afghanistan pipeline? Still a pipe dream.

    The Jews? They may have gained some sympathy for their constant attacks by terrorists, but they're not in a position to pull of an inside job. It would have to be an outside job with one hell of a coverup.

    The government taking away our rights? They don't need a 9/11 to do that.

    So lets look at your "evidence".

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrix
    A. I have never seen 3 skyscrapers before or after ... collapse so perfectly. Has anyone? Building 7 is utterly bizarre.
    Before 9/11 had you ever seen an airliner used as a flying bomb? Me neither. 9/11 was a day of many firsts. The twin towers collapsed perfectly? What dope were YOU smoking that day? The towers' collapse caused massive damage to every building around it to the point most buildings had to be razed to the ground as a total loss. This is not proof of an inside job. This is an OPINION used to come to a conclusion not backed up by the evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrix
    B. How did the 19 Muslims with boxcutters ..beat the trillion dollar US defence system.
    By attacking us in a way we were not prepared for. Again your claim is not evidence, but opinion. This is not proof of an inside job. This is an OPINION used to come to a conclusion not backed up by the evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrix
    How after such a long time period did a plane breach Pentagon security.. which was on full alert... only to then hit the recently specially reinforced section...conveniently housing the "accounts" department. Why was it not shot down?
    The Pentagon does not have anti-aircraft missiles. The flight path for Reagan International Airport goes almost directly over the Pentagon. You would have planes falling out of the sky on a regular basis. BTW, the plane did not hit the "accounts" section. That is a myth perpetrated by truthers to try and justify their lunacy. As for the odds of hitting that one side.... it was one in five. Wow! Proof right there of an inside job! Again what you've posted is not evidence, but opinion. This is not proof of an inside job. This is an OPINION used to come to a conclusion not backed up by the evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrix
    C. Why is there no footage of the 19 muslims at the airport before they apparently boarded the planes? Why are none of their names of the flight lists?
    Oh come on! What did you do, hit every junior truther site on your way here? There is video footage of several of the Muslims entering the airport. There were eyewitnesses who remembered dealing with the likes of Atta. And every name of every hijacker was on the flight lists. They didn't even use aliases. I don't know where you've been getting your information, but you seriously need to find some better sources.

    This time you haven't even given us opinion. You've given us outright lies.

    And just so you understand just how blatant your lies are, here are copies of the original flight manifests with the names of the terrorists clearly visible

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrix
    D. Is it not amazing that we have not heard any of the black box recordings...we are told that they were destroyed on the day.. and that the passports of the terrorists survived! Oh really?
    More truther lies. We have the transcript for the black box that survived. Out of respect to the victims, the actual recording was not released to the public. The victims' families were allowed to hear the recordings. As for passports, two survived out of 19. WOW! Here is the transcript for flight 93.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrix
    E. The supposed terrorists made as much noise as possible in the days and months leading up to the attacks. Is that really the behaviour of muslim fundamentalists planning a secretive attack on US soil?
    Really? Wow. Now this one REALLY sounds like opinion blown out of proportion. What "noise" did they make? Were they perhaps trying to draw attention away from the fact they WERE Muslim fundamentalists? It is actually allowed under Islamic teachings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrix
    F. Can you explain the Transport chief's assertion that a young man rushed in to the Cheney bunker on a number of occasions... and on the last occasion asked "does the order still stand"?
    Sure. By any chance have you actually READ the transcript of that testimony? If you had, you would have found out that there was never any talk of a stand down order. The topic of when the SHOOT DOWN order was issued was very much in discussion. But hey. Don't take my word for it. Here is the complete transcript. Truther sites never have it because it always blows such big ugly holes in their bull(*)(*)(*)(*) theories.

    Here is the relevant piece:

    MR. MINETA: I didn't know about the order to shoot down. I arrived at the PEOC at about 9:20 a.m. And the president was in Florida, and I believe he was on his way to Louisiana at that point when the conversation that went on between the vice president and the president and the staff that the president had with him.

    MR. ROEMER: So when you arrived at 9:20, how much longer was it before you overheard the conversation between the young man and the vice president saying, "Does the order still stand?"

    MR. MINETA: Probably about five or six minutes.

    MR. ROEMER: So about 9:25 or 9:26. And your inference was that the vice president snapped his head around and said, "Yes, the order still stands." Why did you infer that that was a shoot-down?

    MR. MINETA: Just by the nature of all the events going on that day, the scrambling of the aircraft and, I don't know; I guess, just being in the military, you do start thinking about it, an intuitive reaction to certain statements being made.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrix
    G. I tell you what.. there are 100 more unanswered questions...
    perhaps this will help you understand why the majority of Europeans and a third of Americans believe that 911 is deeply suspicious.
    Well if "questions" a - g are any indication, you should be deeply embarassed by your lack of knowledge on the subject and by just how gullible you've been in buying into the truther lies.

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by suede View Post
    Want some evidence a big part of the official story was made up? I suggest following this thread:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/2...ight-93-a.html
    This is a much more informative thread:
    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/2...er-buster.html

    But you can ignore everything after post #307; the rest is padding.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmpet View Post
    Don't waste my time with babble- I want facts- or interesting questions asked. I want theories and ideas. I am one-minded on this, but part of being open minded is listening to the other side's argument, so I will entertain you all.
    I assume this is a typo?


    Keep in mind I did my own 9/11 conspiracy research years ago and found no conspiracy, so I am well-versed in the topic. Even hard entire volumes of 9/11 sites that aren't up anymore- mostly text with images somewhere so I took a hard interest at one point.
    Are you saying you had ? What do you mean by entire volumes of website that aren't up anymore? Are you saying you had 911 websites at one time?

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by suede View Post
    Originally Posted by Fangbeer View Post
    Why would I have evidence? I wasn't involved in the recovery. You've been given the contact information of the folks who were. I suggest you contact them.
    Thanks for admitting you have no evidence that most of Flight 93 buried. Funny you believe in something you have no evidence for!
    The topic is not Fangbeer's beliefs. Try to stay on topic; we wouldn't want the moderators to do more work than they have to.

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