Thread: 911 victim telling you how it is

Originally Posted by Hannibal

Opinions vary.

Got any evidence?

I asked this in another thread:

I have some questions for those who do not believe that 9/11 was in any shape, way, or form anything other than what was reported though: How do you know that the US government didn't have 'any' involvement whatsoever?

I mean, do you have no doubts? None at all? Everything that you've seen, heard, and/or read has made sense to you about 9/11 since September 11th, 2001?

Is there not evidence, which would suggest an inside job, that is in existence, but from the 1960s? Operation Northwoods raises a flag in my mind. Does it not raise one in yours? I didn't know anything about Northwoods until last year. I shook my head just as I am now remembering how I felt reading the Wikipedia page about it...and then finding the declassified documents themselves. It made me wonder.

Alternatively, isn't there evidence that the US government had advanced knowledge of a coming terrorist attack? I know the retort that comes naturally afterward - that they know something was up, but didn't have the specifics. The thing that has bothered me is all of the intelligence the US received from foreign countries. What 'exactly' did those reports indicate? The US was getting reports of it early in 2001. Does this not raise any flags in anybodies mind?

So. Do you have no doubts about 9/11?

Originally Posted by Jango

I asked this in another thread:



So. Do you have no doubts about 9/11?

I did, years ago. Then I followed the evidence.

And what evidence would that be?

Originally Posted by Jango

I asked this in another thread:

I have some questions for those who do not believe that 9/11 was in any shape, way, or form anything other than what was reported though: How do you know that the US government didn't have 'any' involvement whatsoever?

Because there is no evidence to support it.

Originally Posted by Jango

I mean, do you have no doubts? None at all? Everything that you've seen, heard, and/or read has made sense to you about 9/11 since September 11th, 2001?

Is it POSSIBLE the government had some involvement? Yes. Does the evidence support it? No. Do you have any evidence that shows government involvement?

All the truther claims and "questions" about 9/11 have been answered and investigated to the point that it all makes sense. The same cannot be said for the truther theories as you can't get any two truthers to even agree what really happened on 9/11, who did it, how, or why.

Originally Posted by Jango

Is there not evidence, which would suggest an inside job, that is in existence, but from the 1960s? Operation Northwoods raises a flag in my mind. Does it not raise one in yours?

No. Why should it? Are the same people who came up with Operation Northwoods in power now? No. Did it ever go beyond the idea stage? No. Is there ANY evidence the government did something like Operation Northwoods on 9/11? No.

Originally Posted by Jango

I didn't know anything about Northwoods until last year. I shook my head just as I am now remembering how I felt reading the Wikipedia page about it...and then finding the declassified documents themselves. It made me wonder.

There is nothing wrong with wondering. When one takes an unrelated set of people/circumstances and pretends that proves something in the here and now, that is called a paranoid delusion. There is nothing that backs up the government being behind 9/11.

Originally Posted by Jango

Alternatively, isn't there evidence that the US government had advanced knowledge of a coming terrorist attack? I know the retort that comes naturally afterward - that they know something was up, but didn't have the specifics. The thing that has bothered me is all of the intelligence the US received from foreign countries. What 'exactly' did those reports indicate? The US was getting reports of it early in 2001. Does this not raise any flags in anybodies mind?

Most, if not all, of the reports of pending attacks have made it to the public domain including the PDB discussing the threat of Al Qaeda attacks including hijackings. NOTHING of a specific nature has ever been discovered, and if something like that WAS discovered, it would make international news.

Originally Posted by Jango

So. Do you have no doubts about 9/11?

Nope. The evidence speaks for itself. If new evidence presents itself that shows the government was behind 9/11, then I will have to rethink it. Over a decade now and not one shred of real evidence has presented itself.

Originally Posted by Hannibal

Indeed I did. All were speculation.

Any evidence?

Hannibal,
It is also speculation to say that what was presented to the public as the official story and conclusion is nothing more than specualtion itself. Without any evidence to support the government's claims/theory, people accept it as gospel. Do you not find this odd?

Originally Posted by Alif Qadr

Hannibal,
It is also speculation to say that what was presented to the public as the official story and conclusion is nothing more than specualtion itself. Without any evidence to support the government's claims/theory, people accept it as gospel. Do you not find this odd?

One first has to buy the complete lie that the government hasn't presented evidence to back up their claims. Truthers LOVE to pretend there is no evidence to back up the fact 19 fanatic Muslim scumbags carried out an attack on the US for Al Qaeda. The truth of the matter is there is all kinds of evidence and it has already sent a man to prison for life without hope of parole. These are facts truthers cannot swallow.

Originally Posted by Alif Qadr

Hannibal,
It is also speculation to say that what was presented to the public as the official story and conclusion is nothing more than specualtion itself. Without any evidence to support the government's claims/theory, people accept it as gospel. Do you not find this odd?

Lots and lots of evidence has been presented. Independent investigations worldwide have come to the same conclusions.

Do you have any evidence that shows government involvement?

No, I do not. Just speculation fueled by doubts, and previous things.

Why should it?

If our government was capable of plotting such things in the past, then they are surely capable of plotting things of similar nature again.

Is there ANY evidence the government did something like Operation Northwoods on 9/11?

I don't have evidence, but there's always room for doubt. The thing that sticks with me the most is that the government had planned fake terrorist attacks before, which ironically, would have been using airliners among other things to incriminate Cuba so the government could invade. The thing that drives my curiosity is government records: did the US' desire to invade Afghanistan predate 9/11?

When one takes an unrelated set of people/circumstances and pretends that proves something in the here and now, that is called a paranoid delusion.

Right. A lot of the theories I see...they're off the wall. I try to stick to the things I know. But I do have a lot of doubts about 9/11. They're more along the lines of advanced knowledge a la Pearl Harbor (the PNAC comment) and an inside job a la Operation Northwoods, which you already know. The thing that bothers me the most is that we, the common people, are not given access to the full range of records of our government in these matters. It is hard to take our government's word at face value these days, especially when I have doubts of my own. Do you not feel the same way?

NOTHING of a specific nature has ever been discovered, and if something like that WAS discovered, it would make international news.

Of course it would. But that's half the battle in my mind. The government holding on to so much information that would likely alleviate much of the conspiracy (at least in my case).

Over a decade now and not one shred of real evidence has presented itself.

Taking into consideration our government's history, do you think that incriminating evidence of government involvement does exist?


I'm more like you guys. I follow the evidence. However, I safeguard myself with certain protocols. I realize we'll likely never get to the bottom of the barrel in terms of governmental records, so in my mind, there will always be that extra little space in my 9/11 file for doubt. But I am in no way, shape, or form part of the other movement.

Originally Posted by Jango

I asked this in another thread:



So. Do you have no doubts about 9/11?

I have no doubt in a perfect world,the US government should have had enough warning to stop or at least lessen the effects of 9/11, but didn't have all their ducks in a row with interagency rivalry and departmental quotas mucking up the works

Originally Posted by Jango

No, I do not. Just speculation fueled by doubts, and previous things.

Well, at least you know it is speculation. That's a BIG step up!

Originally Posted by Jango

If our government was capable of plotting such things in the past, then they are surely capable of plotting things of similar nature again.

Absolutely! I have no doubts about that and I've already commented that there is far more out there we know nothing about.

Originally Posted by Jango

I don't have evidence, but there's always room for doubt. The thing that sticks with me the most is that the government had planned fake terrorist attacks before, which ironically, would have been using airliners among other things to incriminate Cuba so the government could invade. The thing that drives my curiosity is government records: did the US' desire to invade Afghanistan predate 9/11?

Doubt is a good thing. It is acting or demanding action when one only has doubts that is a bad thing.

Who would want Afghanistan? The place is a literal hell hole. It has no known natural resources other than drugs, but that is a moot point anyway. We are not demanding anything of Afghanistan nor did we take over their government.

Do YOU have any thoughts on what would make invading Afghanistan worth risking everyone's lives over?

Originally Posted by Jango

Right. A lot of the theories I see...they're off the wall. I try to stick to the things I know. But I do have a lot of doubts about 9/11. They're more along the lines of advanced knowledge a la Pearl Harbor (the PNAC comment) and an inside job a la Operation Northwoods, which you already know.

The PNAC is a red herring. It says nothing about the "need" for an attack. It simply states that it would be a slow process without something like a Pearl Harbor happening.

Originally Posted by Jango

The thing that bothers me the most is that we, the common people, are not given access to the full range of records of our government in these matters. It is hard to take our government's word at face value these days, especially when I have doubts of my own. Do you not feel the same way?

What do you feel is being kept from you? The government has released the evidence it has on 9/11. In fact, the government has gone beyond what it normally does to release to the public the evidence they have that backs up their claims.

Al Qaeda has repeatedly and to this day admitted guilt. KSM, the mastermind behind 9/11 and other attacks has admitted his role in 9/11 and has not implicated the government as being involved. In the mean time, the only denial of 9/11 came when Osama was in custody of the Taliban and the Taliban said they would turn over Osama if they had proof of his involvement in 9/11. Since then Osama has repeatedly not only admitted guilt, but provided further proof of his and Al Qaeda's involvement by airing video testimonies of several of the hijackers; something only the guilty party would have access to.

Originally Posted by Jango

Of course it would. But that's half the battle in my mind. The government holding on to so much information that would likely alleviate much of the conspiracy (at least in my case).

So again I ask what you feel is being held back. There is a LOT of information out there that many people just don't know about, so if there is a specific aspect of 9/11 that you feel the government has evidence of but isn't releasing it, post what you want to know about. I and a number of other people here would be glad to discuss the details and show what evidence exists.

Originally Posted by Jango

Taking into consideration our government's history, do you think that incriminating evidence of government involvement does exist?

At this point in time? No. The government absolutely SUCKS at keeping secrets, and with as many people that would have to be involved in even the simplest of truther theories, there is no way they could keep that many people quiet this long. In the first few years after 9/11, I wouldn't be all that surprised if something came out incriminating the government, but at this point I think if there was evidence it would have been found and released by now.

Originally Posted by Jango

I'm more like you guys. I follow the evidence. However, I safeguard myself with certain protocols. I realize we'll likely never get to the bottom of the barrel in terms of governmental records, so in my mind, there will always be that extra little space in my 9/11 file for doubt. But I am in no way, shape, or form part of the other movement.

Yes, you failed miserably at proving yourself as a truther. Shame on you! Do I think the government might be hiding some evidence? Actually I do. It would not surprise me at all that there was some CYA going on that made it past the investigations. I don't think there was malfeasance involved, just some screwups. Do I have evidence of this? No. Just a feeling because it is human nature to CYA and when something as bad as 9/11 happens, NOBODY wants the finger pointed their way!

But like I said. I let the evidence point the way. I have no problem at all changing my mind about what happened if new evidence comes out that cannot be refuted. To date the entire body of "evidence" the truthers have of 9/11 being carried out by whatever baddy the truther hates consists of opinion, ignorance, and outright lies. That is why so many truthers have been reduced to trolling.