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Old 11-01-2005, 02:14 PM
apotropoxy apotropoxy is offline
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Default Is the fetus better off dead?

Wouldn't a fetus be better off aborted? After all, its soul would arrive in heaven instantly but a fetus brought to term and having lived the life of a human might sin sufficiently to earn eternal (*)(*)(*)(*)ation.
Note: I am NOT advocating mass abortion. I am illustrating a conundrum theists must face if they are to be intellectually honest.
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Old 11-01-2005, 03:03 PM
SporkLord SporkLord is offline
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In the Divine Comedy, the souls of the unborn (aborted, stillbirths) join those of the virtous pagans in limbo.
Are Catholics automatically granted a place in Heaven at conversion/birth? I thought you had to be baptised first.
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Old 11-01-2005, 05:36 PM
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Default Just Judge

Quote:
Originally Posted by SporkLord";p=&quot View Post
In the Divine Comedy, the souls of the unborn (aborted, stillbirths) join those of the virtous pagans in limbo.
Are Catholics automatically granted a place in Heaven at conversion/birth? I thought you had to be baptised first.
We speak of things we do not understand. Some things will remain unknown to mortal man.
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Old 11-01-2005, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apotropoxy";p=&quot View Post
Wouldn't a fetus be better off aborted? After all, its soul would arrive in heaven instantly but a fetus brought to term and having lived the life of a human might sin sufficiently to earn eternal (*)(*)(*)(*)ation.
Note: I am NOT advocating mass abortion. I am illustrating a conundrum theists must face if they are to be intellectually honest.
As a theist, I must agree. The abortee would go back to it's Creator. But the aborter and those who advocated the murder of the child, would face judgement. Only true repentance from the heart would save them. God will know who is trying to fool Him. He cannot be fooled.
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Old 11-02-2005, 06:37 AM
apotropoxy apotropoxy is offline
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Default a good question...

[quote]
Quote:
In the Divine Comedy, the souls of the unborn (aborted, stillbirths) join those of the virtous pagans in limbo.
Quote:
Are Catholics automatically granted a place in Heaven at conversion/birth? I thought you had to be baptised first.
1. Catholics postulated the existence of "limbo" to conform with their general notion that their deity(s) is beneficent. There is no joy or pain in this inferred location. It is not a corner of heaven.
2. The Catholics also believe that baptism is vital to entrance into heaven. It is supposed to be a "sacrament" which counteracts the "Original Sin" inflicted on all humans due to Adam's curiosity and disobedience.
Even within the R.C.C.'s theological context, a fetus-soul harbored in limbo for eternity will never be in jeopardy of hell.
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by apotropoxy";p=&quot View Post
Wouldn't a fetus be better off aborted? After all, its soul would arrive in heaven instantly but a fetus brought to term and having lived the life of a human might sin sufficiently to earn eternal (*)(*)(*)(*)ation.
Note: I am NOT advocating mass abortion. I am illustrating a conundrum theists must face if they are to be intellectually honest.
and if you believe that all small children are also innocent, why should we not kill them off too? Such was the logic during the Black plague when nuns would slaughter newborn babies right after baptism to spare them from the plague. I think we all know that this is less than what we call "moral".
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Old 11-02-2005, 10:15 AM
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Default Baby w. the Bathwater

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and if you believe that all small children are also innocent, why should we not kill them off too? Such was the logic during the Black plague when nuns would slaughter newborn babies right after baptism to spare them from the plague. I think we all know that this is less than what we call "moral"
Agreed. Religion is ritualized irrationality.
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Old 11-03-2005, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apotropoxy";p=&quot View Post
Wouldn't a fetus be better off aborted? After all, its soul would arrive in heaven instantly but a fetus brought to term and having lived the life of a human might sin sufficiently to earn eternal (*)(*)(*)(*)ation.
Note: I am NOT advocating mass abortion. I am illustrating a conundrum theists must face if they are to be intellectually honest.
Doing wrong, to do right, is wrong -if you consider killing babies as the right road to take. I have considered this question several times. As a Christian, I do believe they will be received by Christ. So- should I be comforted? SO- am I to be solaced, in knowing I paid (taxes) to terminate their earthly existence? Legalized mass murder of innocent blood is unjustifiable. Who am I to end life because of inconvenience?
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Old 11-03-2005, 11:38 AM
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Default It's Getting Hot

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Doing wrong, to do right, is wrong -if you consider killing babies as the right road to take.

Since you are a Christian I now ask you in your theological context: Isn't a greater good served by transporting souls to heaven than by exposing them the risk of eternal, unfathomable torture? Please justify this risk.
Quote:
As a Christian, I do believe they will be received by Christ. So- should I be comforted? SO- am I to be solaced, in knowing I paid (taxes) to terminate their earthly existence?
But as a Christian shouldn't you be thrilled that your tax dollars are being used to send innocent little souls into the arms of Jesus?
Quote:
Legalized mass murder of innocent blood is unjustifiable.
Even if you guarantee those who perish go to heaven?
Quote:
Who am I to end life because of inconvenience?
Who are you to pass up the sacred opportunity to save souls? What would you tell the tens of thousands of souls that will spend eternity in agonizing torture when they learn they all could have been in heaven?
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Old 11-03-2005, 11:49 AM
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Interesting theological conundrum here, but it is not exclusive to Catholics alone. What of those 'born again' evangelical sects? Where lies the soul's solution when the possibility for a spiritual rebirth has been denied through the prevention of the initial physical birth in the first instance?
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