[quote="yoopergal";p="19685"]I am pleased you agree, YES, it is not your job to judge!

And it is not your job to interfer between someones individual decision and the judgement they will ultimately face for making decisions based on their own free will.
Thus "pro Choice" is in the spirit of free will and "pro Life" is in the spirit of forcing your "personally held values" on other individuals, regardless of their "personally held values".

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Free Speech measures the idiot by what he says
Censorship measures the idiot as equal with the Sage.

I am not a Catholic, nor do I believe in organized religion, though I do very much believe in God, but I heard a Catholic Priest give a very interesting commentary on NPR on Friday. He said that communion was about a persons relationship with God and if the person thought they were worthy of the communion, then it was not the place of the Priest to stop them. he was much more elloquent about this than I am but I just found it refreshing to hear a man of the cloth acknowledge that religion is supposed to be about man and God, not man and church policy.

-Demosthenes

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"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

I believe this is closer to the relationship which should exist.. that is the priest is a "facilitator" of the relationshiip between a communicant and God ... instead of being the "Gate-keeper" between the communicant and God.

__________________
Free Speech measures the idiot by what he says
Censorship measures the idiot as equal with the Sage.

I live to please you...

No, pro-abortion is not on God's to do lists. Pro-life is on God's to do list. Pro-Choice is just pretty way of saying "you have the right to kill your unborn baby!" I just can't see God agreeing with that.

You know, I am beginning to wonder just what would cause you to say "that's Wrong!"

Do you have any obligations to humanity? Do you put any limitations on society? Can we, as a world, make individual decisions on our individual wants and needs? What kind of world would that be?

I don't think you are a bad or stupid man. But I do have to wonder if you have any no-no's in your life. And if you do (and I pray you do) are they because society say's they're wrong or are they totally from your own making?

I am going way out there now.. but just for the example and the fact they too are all free choice possibilities.

Would it be ok for a woman to kill her 4 year old? Would it be ok for a man to be able to rape any woman he wants? Would it be ok for children to put their parents to sleep permanently? How about gangs being able to protect their turf by killing all innocent bystanders?


I am not saying you said, or anyone said these were ok choices. I used them only as examples, and I know they are all wrong.

[/quote]

I was brought up Catholic and haven't gone to church in years. I know a lot of Catholics who go to church and have large families. I graduated in a class of about 200 kids and still know and talk to a lot of them. Not one is pro choice. Back up your facts before you put them up here because that stat is a bunch of bunk.
For your second point that is fine but what about the parents who took the payoffs and allowed the priests and bishops to get away with those atrocities? Do they hold no responsibility?
For your third point, Capital punishment has been around since the beginning of time. The old testament calls for "an eye for an eye". Capital punishment is a great deterrent and frankly I would rather get rid of an evil murderer like Ted Bundy than an innocent unborn child. Why you would defend a murderer to live but an innocent unborn baby to die is beyond me.

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Those who think they know everything, usually know the least.

“Do you have any obligations to humanity? Do you put any limitations on society?

The debate is about a “woman’s right of choice” and not about my “obligations to humanity”.

“Can we, as a world, make individual decisions on our individual wants and needs? What kind of world would that be?”

I make individual decisions as they effect me every day. I do so and I know me making them is more likely to result in an effective outcome than leaving it to government/society to make them for me.

I know what life would be like where we are not allowed to make our own decisions (we endured the Cold War for that purpose). It is not a society I would want to be a part of and it is one I will fight to prevent coming back to haunt humanity ever again.

“Would it be ok for a woman to kill her 4 year old? Would it be ok for a man to be able to rape any woman he wants? Would it be ok for children to put their parents to sleep permanently? How about gangs being able to protect their turf by killing all innocent bystanders?

I am not saying you said, or anyone said these were ok choices. I used them only as examples, and I know they are all wrong. “

Such inappropriate analogies reflect a desperation in and the bankruptcy of your cause.

I am not going to be drawn into a stupid debate which relies on inappropriate and “loaded” comparisons.


I repeat my personal stand on this whole matter-

I am not in favour of abortion. I am in favour of a woman’s individual right to choose how her body will be used and I defend her right to make that choice.

__________________
Free Speech measures the idiot by what he says
Censorship measures the idiot as equal with the Sage.

Many of you ask "What right does a woman have to abort a child?"
Well I ask you, what right do you have to force her to have a child? While we all have the right ot choose for ourselves, as we should, we do not have the right to take that decision away from others simply because we disagree with it. And please don't respond to this by going to the extreme and saying, "Well by that we philosophy, murder and rape would be ok too b/c we have to respect their decisions too." This is not a valid arguement. Everyone here agrees that there are laws in place so that we can all co-habitate peacefully. If a woman has an abortion, that does not change or effect your life in any way. A person can be robbed, murdered, or raped. but no one is ever going to kidnap you, take you some where and force you to have an abortion. Abortion is a private matter and should be left as such.

-Demosthenes

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"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

And by what right do you so-called christians PLAY GOD BY artifically CREATING BABIES, by in vitro fertilization, surrogate wombs, fertility drugs, etc?
IF YOUR GOD WANTED YOU TO HAVE A BABY IT WOULD MAKE YOU PREGNANT, right? All powerful, omniscient, right?
What about the PLAN HE MAY HAVE For your life - which you are thumbing your nose at for a selfish wish?
What if god meant you to adopt?

THERESE says:"For your third point, Capital punishment has been around since the beginning of time. The old testament calls for "an eye for an eye"."


NEWSFLASH honey: - ABORTION has been around since time began too. Fercrisakes it didn't start in America in the 20th century!!
Back as far as the days when we lived in caves, women knew which plants or bark of which trees or seeds would induce miscarriage when taken.


When I hear filthy, hypocritical christians rationalize their flipping god the bird by artifically creating life, saying "if he didn't want us to do it he wouldn't have given us the knowledge", I always answer back;"he gave us the knowledge to STOP pregnancies too - lonnnng before the knowledge to artifically create it - so it's okay, right?"

That usually shuts them up - - - -but never for long - - they just go find someone too stupid to think and they preach to that person instead.

That is a very good point that I have never thought about before, thank you very much for pointing that out.

-Demosthenes

__________________
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower