O.K. even if having a abortion is against Christianity then why can't atheists have a abortion?

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What's this i hear bed? Word has it you and Pam are sleeping together.

And on the same matter - if one christian denomination is against abortion, fine - but they do not to speak for all christian denominations.

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Free Speech measures the idiot by what he says
Censorship measures the idiot as equal with the Sage.

ehh...the word Christian means...(verbatim I might add) "follower of Christ" one cannot call themselves Christian and then go against the teachings of Christ..that said..there's your answer

When exacly did Christ say no-one can have a abortion?

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What's this i hear bed? Word has it you and Pam are sleeping together.

He didn't say "no one can have an abortion" He DID say that "the Spirit of God makes Us" and that the "breath of God gives us life" (Job umm... 33 or something like that I'll look up the rest of the verses that I quote)

It also says in acts 17:25 that "He gives to all life,breath, to all things." In Job 10:8-12 Job talks in detail with God about how he was formed personally by the hand of God...."Did you not pour me out like milk, and curdle me like cheese, clothe me with skin and flesh, and knit me together with bones and sinews? You have granted me life and favor, and Your care has preserved my spirit."

God speaks specifically of killing the living and it's consequences...there's a billion verses on each of my points but I'm only gonna cite a couple. "Exodus 23:7 - Keep yourself far from a false matter; do not kill the innocent and righteous. For I will not justify the wicked."

Since those who are pro-abortion (semantics are critical..notice I didn't use the words "pro-choice"; I'll explain that in a moment) can no longer argue against the life that is ended when an elective abortion is the chosen way with which to deal with a pregnancy, it is very clear that abortion is in fact against God's law. Jesus never said verbatim "thou shall not have an abortion." Instead he came and issued the edict that the requirements of the law have been fulfilled through love (Romans 13:9-10). If you have love you automatically follow the ten commandments and you won't kill; i.e., electively abort. If you don't love..well then..... there certainly are consequences. I could write a book about those consequences, the significance and true definition of love and the practical application of the aforementioned concepts in today's society however, I'll spare ya'll I will say though, that it's imperative that we call abortion what it is and go from there.

I'm sad that "Christians" have chosen to murder doctors engaging in assistance with elective abortion. I'm sad that "Christians" protest outside of abortion clinics and ridicule and condemn. And most of all I'm sad that said people have used the name of the Lord to treat people so horribly. Anyone can claim a name and talk is cheap, and I promise y'all that true followers of Christ say very very little and could care less what kind of situation you're in or what you've done or who you are and only say anything about the bible when asked specifically about it.

Normally I would never leave such a long post and I tend to shy away from talking about Christianity because if you wanted to know about it you'd come to me. But there are times when I'd do anything for the world to know that the true Christians are never heard from and typically you never know when you've come into contact with one unless the subject of faith comes up in daily conversation.

As far as abortion and the bible goes..I'm not gonna preach and put up any more verses however I will say that the bible never says to "protest in the name of the Lord," word for word or otherwise. However it does speak about seeing those in need, Christian or non-believer and ignoring them or worse, condemning them. It also says that condemnation comes from the pit of hell and that all are precious in the eyes of the Lord. Furthermore, God gave the residents of Sodom a choice before he rained fire down upon their city. He also gave the children of Israel a choice before they ended up wandering around in the wilderness for years and years. The crux of this thing called faith is volition. We are intrinsically volitional beings and honestly, God never told us to legislate the faith. Futhermore, when we have to lobby for laws to forbid women from murdering their unborn children, there is a much deeper problem than the one that you're choosing to see. "Christians" tend to go out of their way to "fix" said problems and after they've successfully passed a law they walk away and wash their hands comfortable in the knowledge that they're "Good Christians." As if there is such a thing. This is a horrible attitude and it totally contradicts the nature of the heart of Christ.

Anyways..my entire point is that God made us with a mind and a will. He wants us to choose the right way. No one can force us. He'll do his best to try to push us in the way we need to go and there are always consequences but only because He loves us. He'd never force us to not murder (in extraordinary circumstances this can happen though) so why would abortion be any different? That said..I'm pro-choice as a very conservative (but not hypocritical jack assed) Christian but I am under NO CIRCUMSTANCES pro-abortion. To end this really long and annoying diatribe..I have to say that true Love hugs the women and girls thinking about aborting their babies. True love takes care of your children and instills values in them and teaches them the beauty of the sanctity and holiness that is sex so that they won't grow up to do it before marriage later. True love isn't 9 to 5 and it is there for the alone and hurting and lost and those considered unloveable by society's sad and conditional standards. True love holds the hand of those who have had abortions and gently leads them to the love of God with the truth. True love never condemns or emberrasses or protests or ignores or refuses to help or give and it is not selfish. True love isn't the "Christianity" that the world hates... and is sadly the only one y'all have ever seen. And for that, I apologize. So uhh..yeah..rock on..or something.
haha



Way Rad Stuff

I find that I can dismantle any pro choice argument without the need to inject religion into the conversation...

Since you start off with Christianity...ok...Christians don't single out the unborn to ne protected from murder in cold blood, or because they are not convenient to have around...

Are you suggesting that an athiest should have the right to kill anyone at any time simply because they don't believe in God?

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It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

It is a human rights issue. Funny how liberals are all for human rights, except when it pertains to them. You hipocrites will never learn, will you? KILLING IS WRONG! ABORTION IS KILLING! THEREFORE, ABORTION IS WRONG! GET IT!

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"It aint over, till it's over"

This is why there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state.

I think that abortion should be allowed, so long as it is limited to the age at which the foetus can exist outside the womb; with extensions if there is a risk to the life of the mother, or if the child has a terrible disability that would destroy its quality of life.

I cannot see how you can apply human rights to that of a foetus, considering that many parts of the UN charter of human rights are non-applicable to an unborn foetus. In this sense, the foetus is simply a part of the mother until it can survive outside the womb, at which point (in my opinoin) it becomes a child.

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"I see no reason why...there should not arise a United States of Europe" Winston Churchill, 1946

So technology should be the determining factor as to whether a fetus is considered a human or not? To wit: A child born at 28-30 weeks gestation in the 1700's would have had virtually no chance of living. Today our technological advances in medicine would allow that same child to survive. In the 1700's that 28-30 week fetus would have been a non-human whereas today, considered a human as long as the mother wanted it. If she didn't then it could be considered a "fetus" again and aborted (another part of the abortion debate left for another thread, another day).

If you're implying that the child today born at 28-30 weeks, that would certainly die without advanced medical care, isn't a human because it can't survive on its own outside the womb then what of people like Christopher Reeve and the technology needed to keep him alive? I'm of course being rediculous, but the point is made.

BTW... While I consider myself somewhat religious, 90%+ of my view on abortion is made up from scientific and non-religious reasoning. I also don't think that Roe v. Wade will be overturned anytime soon in this country, even with the supposed "Right wing radicals" in office now.

Interesting...isn't it? I find that pro choicers use words like "fetus" and "embryo" and "blastocyst" in much the same way that a racist will use words like "(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)" and "coon" and "spook"...as if to say that "we" deserve the protection of the law, but those people...with names like that don't .

The fact is that embryo, and fetus, and blastocyst are just words used to describe human beings in certain stages of their development...just like toddler, infant, teenager, and adult. Using scientific jargon does not erase the humanity of the humans that you are talking about any more than calling an old geezer an octagenerian would erase his humanity.

Putting qualifiers on people to exempt them from the protection of the law is exactly what all racists and elitists do...just dehumanize them just a little and then they are no longer your equals and it is ok to do with them as you will....

And "your opinion" means little in the face of science...the fact that in "your opinion" a child is simply part of the mother until it is born demonstrates that you have based "your opinion" on an ignorance of the biological facts. If that is what "your opinion" is based on, perhaps if you did a bit of research, you would find that maybe you aren't so pro choice after all.

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It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.