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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2008, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kuta777 View Post
That was a very good point, A conjoined twin is feeding off the others nutrients. Very good point.
I don't know if conjoined twins are feeding of one another. Do they both feed of each other, or is only one feeding of the other? I think it depends on where the joining is.
If a conjoined twin is using the others nutrients to sustain it's life, it is almost certain the other twins life will be in danger, due to loss of nutrients. In that case, yes, you have every right to remove it.
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Old 03-22-2008, 06:41 PM
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My take on abortion has been laid out pretty well. But I am curious.

Sharon.

Say the twins each had their own stomach, heart, lungs, everything to sustain life. But shared one key thing to keep each alive, The brain. How do you chose who lives? And if one twin obviously had the more parts, but both have everything to live minus this one part, is it up to the one with the most parts to decide?
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Jones:- We're going to teach them climbing, abseiling, canoeing, archery, shooting...

Interviewer:- Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible isn't it?

Jones:- I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the range.

Interviewer:- Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?
You're equipping them to become violent killers.

Jones:- Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute but you're not one are you?
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Old 03-23-2008, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by C-D-P View Post
Well I know a good number of libs, one of them is our historian, she is a fat cow, she does not walk unless she has to. So saying that We do this, or we do that, is not an accurate statement.

I was not being insulting. I was correcting an error. Just like the OP of this thread made. As I said earlier. I am what some would call conservative (though I really do not belong to a party). My parents are, but, HELLO, I was adopted.
I have been thinking about what you said - and I get why you thought I meant `we' as in `we liberals'. What I meant was `we' as in myself and my husband. Lol!

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Originally Posted by Sharon Tate View Post
I don't know if conjoined twins are feeding of one another. Do they both feed of each other, or is only one feeding of the other? I think it depends on where the joining is.
If a conjoined twin is using the others nutrients to sustain it's life, it is almost certain the other twins life will be in danger, due to loss of nutrients. In that case, yes, you have every right to remove it.
Do you consider a baby feeding off its mother, or a foetus in utero living off its mother's nutrients, to be putting the `host' body - the mother - in danger? Is that why it scares you so much?
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Old 03-23-2008, 06:24 AM
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First of all, you're wrong about conservatives.

John and Cindy McCain adopted a "dying" child from Bangladesh----and she's now their teenage daughter.

Bill and Hillary Clinton spoke of adopting a child while they were president.....BUT, oh yeah, they decided against it.
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Old 03-23-2008, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon Tate View Post
I don't know if conjoined twins are feeding of one another. Do they both feed of each other, or is only one feeding of the other? I think it depends on where the joining is.
If a conjoined twin is using the others nutrients to sustain it's life, it is almost certain the other twins life will be in danger, due to loss of nutrients. In that case, yes, you have every right to remove it.

i case you cant dont realize it yet, most conjoined twins can feed themselves individually which means that either twin can sustain themselves through the intake of nutrients.. even if they share an organ together, you cant prove that one organ belongs to one twin as opposed to the other.

not to mention that there are those pesky laws that prohibit the killing of another human being.

BTW even in the case you present, that one twin is draining the nutrients of the other, you can use iv lines to survive. and i dont see what would stop the other twin from consuming more nutrients.
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Old 03-23-2008, 03:52 PM
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Not to mention the `you have every right to remove it' would apply equally to both twins. So what would you have there? A double homicide? Or is one twin `less' of a human than the other? Particularly if (for example) it had to have assisted respiration. After all, apparently it's breathing that makes us human beings.
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:08 AM
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just because you know one woman who regreted her choice doesn't mean it shouldn't be a legal choice for someone else. An abortion if decided for the right reasons and was the WOMAN's decision (not pressured by the father or her parents) with appropriate post-care and counselling she will come through it. Here is my story: (posted on the right to chose thread)

I am going to have an abortion next week. I am 26 y/o and been married 4 years. My pregnancy was the neglect of my doctor. I previously had an IUD which had expired and ended up with an extended wait until my new one could be placed. Since IUDs are now commonly used as emergency contraceptive up to a week following sex where were told we would be safe... WE DID USE CONDOMS anyways... and it failed. My doctor did not do a pregnancy test before replacing it and it turns out I was alredy 5-9 days pregnant upon insertion. My marriage is falling apart and for the baby's sake we have chosen not to bring it into a broken family... Adoption is not an option because of pompus people like yourselfves who would critize me for giving away my baby but more-so that everyone I know that would see me noticibly pregnant doesn't need to know that I my marriage is going through hardship. I wish I could give it up for adoption so it could be raised by someone who could provide a stable home but it would raise too many questions my and my husband's mental health is not ready to deal with on a repetitive daily basis.
I would be considered a high risk pregnancy and would be continually have complications due to the IUD lost in my uterus. On top of that... 80% or more of women in my physical situation abort and there is no reliable data on the safety issues involved. Research did show however, that I am at 50X greater risk of maternal death.Do I not have the choice to not put my life at risk???

I have the support of my family, husband and professional counselling. I know I am making the right choice given my circumstances. But I will let you know if I am one of the statistics of post-abortive stress syndrome and my opinion changes with the experience.
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by saskgirl View Post
just because you know one woman who regreted her choice doesn't mean it shouldn't be a legal choice for someone else. An abortion if decided for the right reasons and was the WOMAN's decision (not pressured by the father or her parents) with appropriate post-care and counselling she will come through it. Here is my story: (posted on the right to chose thread)

I am going to have an abortion next week. I am 26 y/o and been married 4 years. My pregnancy was the neglect of my doctor. I previously had an IUD which had expired and ended up with an extended wait until my new one could be placed. Since IUDs are now commonly used as emergency contraceptive up to a week following sex where were told we would be safe... WE DID USE CONDOMS anyways... and it failed. My doctor did not do a pregnancy test before replacing it and it turns out I was alredy 5-9 days pregnant upon insertion. My marriage is falling apart and for the baby's sake we have chosen not to bring it into a broken family... Adoption is not an option because of pompus people like yourselfves who would critize me for giving away my baby but more-so that everyone I know that would see me noticibly pregnant doesn't need to know that I my marriage is going through hardship. I wish I could give it up for adoption so it could be raised by someone who could provide a stable home but it would raise too many questions my and my husband's mental health is not ready to deal with on a repetitive daily basis.
I would be considered a high risk pregnancy and would be continually have complications due to the IUD lost in my uterus. On top of that... 80% or more of women in my physical situation abort and there is no reliable data on the safety issues involved. Research did show however, that I am at 50X greater risk of maternal death.Do I not have the choice to not put my life at risk???

I have the support of my family, husband and professional counselling. I know I am making the right choice given my circumstances. But I will let you know if I am one of the statistics of post-abortive stress syndrome and my opinion changes with the experience.
I am not in your situation, so I can not say how I would react. But I can say how I would like to react.

But you are basically telling me that you do not want to put it up for adoption because it is inconvenient.

I do not know of anyone that would frown on you for putting the child up for adoption. And you can, you simply choose not to.
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Jones:- We're going to teach them climbing, abseiling, canoeing, archery, shooting...

Interviewer:- Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible isn't it?

Jones:- I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the range.

Interviewer:- Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?
You're equipping them to become violent killers.

Jones:- Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute but you're not one are you?

Last edited by C-D-P; 04-03-2008 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskgirl View Post
just because you know one woman who regreted her choice doesn't mean it shouldn't be a legal choice for someone else. An abortion if decided for the right reasons and was the WOMAN's decision (not pressured by the father or her parents) with appropriate post-care and counselling she will come through it. Here is my story: (posted on the right to chose thread)

I am going to have an abortion next week. I am 26 y/o and been married 4 years. My pregnancy was the neglect of my doctor. I previously had an IUD which had expired and ended up with an extended wait until my new one could be placed. Since IUDs are now commonly used as emergency contraceptive up to a week following sex where were told we would be safe... WE DID USE CONDOMS anyways... and it failed. My doctor did not do a pregnancy test before replacing it and it turns out I was alredy 5-9 days pregnant upon insertion. My marriage is falling apart and for the baby's sake we have chosen not to bring it into a broken family... Adoption is not an option because of pompus people like yourselfves who would critize me for giving away my baby but more-so that everyone I know that would see me noticibly pregnant doesn't need to know that I my marriage is going through hardship. I wish I could give it up for adoption so it could be raised by someone who could provide a stable home but it would raise too many questions my and my husband's mental health is not ready to deal with on a repetitive daily basis.
I would be considered a high risk pregnancy and would be continually have complications due to the IUD lost in my uterus. On top of that... 80% or more of women in my physical situation abort and there is no reliable data on the safety issues involved. Research did show however, that I am at 50X greater risk of maternal death.Do I not have the choice to not put my life at risk???

I have the support of my family, husband and professional counselling. I know I am making the right choice given my circumstances. But I will let you know if I am one of the statistics of post-abortive stress syndrome and my opinion changes with the experience.
What's the law in Canada? regarding abortions?

Is it funded by your National healthcare? or is it separate.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by C-D-P View Post
I am not in your situation, so I can not say how I would react. But I can say how I would like to react.

But you are basically telling me that you do not want to put it up for adoption because it is inconvenient.

I do not know of anyone that would frown on you for putting the child up for adoption. And you can, you simply choose not to.
I don't think that's what she's saying - she also has medical complications that would place her in a high-risk category and certainly any issues with an IUD can be life-threatening. My aunt miscarried and almost died due to complications from a migrated IUD, and I had one surgically inserted three years ago for contraception that got infected almost immediately and I ended up hospitalised because of the problems it caused. I was amazed that I could get pregnant at all after that.

There are mitigating circumstances in this case. It’s not as black-and-white as `convenience’ or `inconvenience’. It sometimes can be, but that is rarely the case. It is not fair to get up onto the moral pedestal and make judgements based on one post without knowing this woman or anything about her or her life.

This is one of those situations where the rights, safety, health and security of the mother outweigh that of the child. I doubt that this has been an easy decision - and I certainly doubt that she thought `oh jeez. This is just such a PAIN. I'm gonna have an abortion cos that'll make my life easier'. I really doubt that.
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