I'm currently working in a country where abortion is illegal and it doesn't stop people from getting abortions, they either pay "friendly" doctors large sums of money to do it on the sneak, take the DIY approach, give birth then dump the baby, or often just give birth and subject the child to the kind of life you would expect them to receive from parents incapable and unwilling to raise them.
I'm not a big fan of abortion, not for any religious reasons but I think it is something that plays into the what I call the "disposable lifestyle" people have these days. If you don't like it, get rid of it, same with relationships, and I don't think it's proving a healthy attitude in terms of society.
But making abortion illegal is not the answer. Creating a society were it is not frowned upon to give birth and put the child up for adoption would be a good start (plenty of people looking to adopt), making the point to people who aren't very religious that abortion might not be the best thing for them or for society rather than trying to force religious doctrine on people who do not share the same religious beliefs, and of course the usual sex education etc.

It's one of these subjects where understandably people have strong beliefs and get very emotional, unfortunately often resulting in the erosion of logic. As is usually the case with this kind of subject, both sides have valid points and it just requires a deep breath and a bit of give an take to reach a solution of peace and relative satisfaction for all sides.

In my humble opinion

Additionally, I have a 2 year old son and myself and my wife had him after we had been together for 11 months, yes we were that stupid, it was an accident, we really didn't want a child and we were scared. But we both decided we had to try anyway, and now I can promise you I'm very glad we did, he's perfect in every way (I know everyone says that about their children lol).

I don't know if you guys have been passing around some kind of liquid that gives you comprehension problems...but pay attention:

I brought up specifically the sanctity of life. The sanctity of life encompasses far more than just abortion.

Mistake how? Tell me how, instead of playing games with me. I don't need a preaching lesson on what I'm saying or myself, I want a response to the content of my posting.

I'm fine with humor, but when nothing is being addressed and just snubbed at...

Obviously, the sanctity of life was not held in high esteem during Saddam's reign of terror. But are we holding it in high regard either? Innocents dying every day, many displaced and many living amongst chaos and instability. Soldiers dying for reasons outside of their oath (sadly).

As for abortion, I'm all for it if the person doing it feels it necessary. I don't think it necessary in the later stages of a pregnacy (like a partial-birth abortion). But the first few months, why not?

So, the young fifteen year old girl that spread her legs for her man is able to feel it is necessary?

Most people often are not able to think about anything but themselves when they are stressed.

I'm sure that is the case, but it isn't for me or my neighbor or some politician in Washington to decide that. I don't doubt that the fifteen year old (in this case) is thinking selfishly. I definitely think she is a moron and should be held accountable for her actions.

But that isn't for me to decide.

Passing the buck? I think so.


It seems that it is for you to decide when someone that is older makes a call that you do not agree with.

No no, its ok. Im done here.

No. I don't feel it is for me to decide the decision of a woman with regards to having or not having a baby. I don't feel that is anyone, but that woman's decision (and her partner of course).

Now with regards to what I believe you are referring to: Bush's decisions on the Iraq War and passing bills like the Patriot Act or the Military Commissions Act; his decisions actually have an impact on me.

A woman deciding to keep or abort after a few months into a pregnacy has no bearing on my life at all.

LOL. How did I know you were going to say that?

But abortion can have an impact on your life.

Also, by your own admission, you admit that you are selfish. Also by your own admission you prove that you are a hypocrite.

If someone wants or doesn't want to bring a baby into this world, has no bearing on my life to take an issue with it one way or another. I don't see how that "admission" can be seen as selfish.

I can see why it would have an impact on somebody elses' life because it may be an issue that they care about deeply or what have you. But it doesn't do anything for me.

What is hypocritical here?

Woman makes decision (along with partner) that will impact herself (and partner) and Bush (and Congress) make decisions that will impact millions of people. I don't see the comparison.

Okay, let me be frank for a second here CDP. I'll admit folly with one regard: the statement where I said, "It doesn't impact my life." I retract that statement and I'm not entirely sure why I even said it. That being said, this is one of the only issues that I will flip on. I'm just not sure yet. As a libertarian I'm stuck on two instrumental ideas:

Pro-choice: Abortion is a woman’s choice and does not concern the state.

Pro-life: the fetus has a human right to life, and that an abortion is the initiation of fatal force against a helpless victim.

Some may see this as trying to save face or cover my tracks, but it is a sincere retraction from a stupid statement late at night.