By going in and defending the sanctity of life from the defenseless, yes we are holding it in high regard. We have people laying down their lives for freedom, thats how much we care about it. Supporting those who are risking their being is a little way that we can uphold the sanctity of life. If you want to play a cold hard number game, there have been about 4,000 casualties so far (including 9/11), but 100 years from now, if we accomplish our goals, we can prevent dozens of potential attacks and prevent people from having to fear and be killed by ruthless governments. The trade is obvious.

Would you have liked to have been aborted within the first few months of life? Have you calculated a tipping point? Where does one stop being a choice and become a life?

The fact of the matter is that the baby is a person, and needs to be protected, senseless abortion is no better than murder.

Adding more death to a mix that is already bad, doesn't make much sense to me.



Odd question. But if they wanted to in the early stages, then so be it. It is what it is.

I like this reasoning from the Objectivist philosophy:

A fetus does not have a right to be in the womb of any woman, but is there by her permission. This permission may be revoked by the woman at any time, because her womb is part of her body... There is no such thing as the right to live inside the body of another, i.e. there is no right to enslave... a woman is not a breeding pig owned by the state (or church). Even if a fetus were developed to the point of surviving as an independent being outside the pregnant woman's womb, the fetus would still not have the right to be inside the woman's womb.

Like I said though, I could flip very easily on this as a Libertarian.

This is a bit off topic, so I think we should do it in PM.

__________________
Jones:- We're going to teach them climbing, abseiling, canoeing, archery, shooting...

Interviewer:- Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible isn't it?

Jones:- I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the range.

Interviewer:- Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?
You're equipping them to become violent killers.

Jones:- Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute but you're not one are you?

....*sigh*....

That's gotta be one of the best posts I have read on this topic - EVER.

In the first few months of life (i.e. in utero - to which I assume you are referring) you wouldn't know about being aborted. So it's moot to ask whether you would `like it' or not. You wouldn't know. How you feel about it is irrelevant. We know a lot about what babies experience in utero but conscious awareness and ability to make judgements upon likes and dislikes isn't really in it. Most of us can't remember anything that happened to us before we were about three - let alone before we were born.

You are speaking as if you would know about it after you were dead. You wouldn't - you're dead. That's the point.

__________________
We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

Thanks, at least someone actually listened.

It was a good post.


My grandfather could not remember what he had for breakfast the last few years of his life. Would it have been ok to kill him?

No I am not getting emotional over the subject. Just curious about other people's views.

__________________
Jones:- We're going to teach them climbing, abseiling, canoeing, archery, shooting...

Interviewer:- Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible isn't it?

Jones:- I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the range.

Interviewer:- Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?
You're equipping them to become violent killers.

Jones:- Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute but you're not one are you?

[quote=JP5;482064
Why don't liberal Democrats and unresponsible adults simply STOP acting like animals, use their heads, use birth control, and STOP getting pregnant when they don't want a baby and have no means to take care of one? After all, most of the rest of us do just that! We wait until we WANT a baby---we wait until we CAN AFFORD a baby---we wait until we CAN TAKE CARE OF a baby. God gave us brains so we could act like humans; not animals. There is such a thing as personal responsibility and it starts with YOU. (using "YOU" in the general sense)[/QUOTE]

I absoultely agree on this case, that abortion should not be used as a means of birth control and that humans need to be intelligent with their actions. But I still believe that abortion should be legal, because there are situations like mine where it may be the right option for the woman at the time. I am highly educated, 26 and married and have all the rights in this world to be having sex. Sure my marriage is coming to an end and we aren't in a position to bring a new life into this world but intimacy is an important part of the attempts of reconcillation. And we used birth control and had faith that the IUD could prevent pregnancy if inserted up to 7 days following unprotected sex. Apparently I was 8 days pregnant. I found it funny when I went and had a talk with a local planned-parenthood type agency that the councellor was shocked that I am 26 an never had any kind of pregnancy before. That really shows how low our society has gotten on morals. I am not religious in any way, so I at least have that on my side as I go in to have my abortion tomorrow... I don't believe in any god who will spite me for it. I only have my own conscience and values to guide me. Just don't get me started on my views of religion! How they had their place in the past, to keep people monomagous to keep down rates of disease.. but in our world of science.. we know what dieseases casual unprotected sex leads too.
My mother and her 7 sisters were children of a strict catholic home who was sexually abused by their father.. so I have been taught to dark sides of christianity and how your are taught not to question, to have faith... which is why so many children have suffered at the hands of adults (priests!). I believe in education, questioning everything, and not taking other people's word on it without doing my own reasearch. Therefore I cannot believe in some holy mighty deity will come save us while so much suffering goes on. I teach yoga, and can follow the teachings of buddha, as he was a man of great intelligence not some fiction made by men hundreds of years ago to control a population. That is just my view anyways. Sure I may be a heathen to you, but I believe I am a good person and making the best choice.

As the other lady pointed out I don't have the support of my husband to try to get through this pregnancy. I am an extremely healthy athlete, a personal trainer and yoga instructor and only 26... other than the situation with the IUD there is no reason why I can't wait until the time is right to have a safe, healthy pregnancy.. Obviously your wife must be older or have other health problems that caused her difficulites and most likely would not be a different situation if she aborted and tried again... I am thankful for you that you successfully had the child you wanted and love. I hope someday I can too once I am finacially stable and in a new stable relationship in which we can love and cherish the baby and give it what it deserves in life. I am just not in a position to do so right now... and can't put myself through the health risks to put it for adoption. I am thankful that Canada is a free society that lets me make this choice.

A Society can rationalize anything. The Germans did it under the Nazi regime. All of a sudden it was okay to kill Jews, homosexuals, the mentally ill, gypsies, Catholics, political enemies.... all that didn't fit the Aryan ideal. Afterall they were sub-human.

A society can rationalize abortion, afterall it's just a "fetus", a thing growing in womb. It's okay to remove it, it's sub-human.

However I'm a man, and I understand the issue is a woman's issue. A woman carries the unborn child. I do not. So that is a perspective that should be considered.

I still cannot rationalize the murder of an unborn child.

That is what it is.

It is killing a life separate from your own. Reducing it to the equivalent of an insect, a pest that needs to be exterminated because it is un-wanted.

Abortion is murder, but it is not my place to judge another, that is God's job. In the meantime it is perfectly legal to have one here in the States. I won't argue that. So I pray for the soul who has had an abortion.