You will be in my prayers. It is a difficult decision I'm sure. You are young and maybe one day you will look back and think about the various paths you chose in your life. Maybe one day you will regret this decision or feel guilt. What if your own Mother decided to abort you? You are blessed in having parents who loved you and raised you. Either way, you have a soul and your life has value as all human life does. Including the unborn.

I get what you're saying and it's a good question - however not quite the same thing. Your grandfather has lived a full and conscious life - with awareness, memory, experience, influence, legacy and so forth. So losing his memory now, later in life, does not mean he's never had one.

A foetus has never had consciousness or awareness - in fact cannot even possibly be equipped to know what these things are, has not experienced life or contributed or influenced life, has no concept of anything - is a bundle of sensation and primal instincts and that is all, when talking about consciousness.

Now, that does not make it `ok' to kill it - but what it does is make it irrelevant about asking how it would `feel' to be killed. It wouldn't know. That's my point. Your grandfather WOULD know - and therein lies the difference.

On that note, I cannot remember something for more than 10 minutes these days - 15 if I'm lucky. That does NOT make it ok to kill me!!

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

I understand what you are saying. But when I hear someone say this.

I see that as all the more reason not to kill it.

From the OP
And there you have it. For the liberal, the value of life depends on their projected quality of life.

Poor? Kill it!

May never have a chance to go to disney? Kill it!

Down syndrom? Kill it!

Grampa's too old, want his money fast! Put him in a care center and when the time is right, have them kill him!

And let me also say this, that I know many people who would love to adopt a child but cannot because the same power behind the abortion industry has influenced the adoption laws to the point that it's next to impossible to adopt for the average person. People are going to third world countries to adopt children to avoid the whole thing.

I can post all day on the falicies of the OP, but it's like banging my head up against a wall.

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"That dog's as subtle as a hand grenade in a barrrel of oat meal."--Foghorn Leghorn

Yes but that is not the point I was arguing. I wasn't saying it is ok to kill it - I was saying it's pointless to speculate on whether it would `like' being killed. It wouldn't know. Whether it is ok or not is a different matter and not one to which I was referring.

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

No offense, and this is not meant as an attack. But no one that is alive knows what it is like to be killed.

The simple thing here is this. Ok, because of the below.

If I am walking down the street, attempting to get on with my life, and you were in my way, would it be ok for me to shoot you in the head? You would not feel it, we have already proved as well we can that a round through the head and the projectile impacts the medulla oblongata, that the time it takes the bullet to pass through the skull and the gray matter is less time than it takes for the pain receptors to process the "feeling". So knowing that you would not know what hit you, would that make it right, or acceptable so I can get on with my life?

If not, how can you say it would be ok for Suzy to kill unborn kid two thousand and twelve? He would not know it (if they killed him before the pain receptors formed).

It's interesting that I offer a logical perspective and yet the argument continues.

Is this debate about abortion or being proved correct I wonder?

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Manu Chao - Bongo Bong

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." - Oscar Wilde

"Nothing doth more hurt in a state than that cunning men pass for wise." - Sir Francis Bacon

Perspective yes. Answer to the debate? No.

Sometimes it is not about ending the debate, but about understanding the other side.

And for some people it is not about ending something but holding accountable those that continue after it is illegal.

But I've listened to yourself and the rest go round and round for several pages now and it's clear you're not trying to understand each other. You're making your opinionated points with the intention of winning the argument.

I made my opinionated point but one of reason that was carefully thought through to encourage people to reach compromise.

And "holding accountable those that continue after it is illegal" how do you mean? It's often not possible to do so unfortunately and trying to do such can cause more problems than biting the bullet and starting again.

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Manu Chao - Bongo Bong

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." - Oscar Wilde

"Nothing doth more hurt in a state than that cunning men pass for wise." - Sir Francis Bacon

Like a lot of threads on here. It's about winning the argument not being right. That attitude is what will destroy us as humans.

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Manu Chao - Bongo Bong

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." - Oscar Wilde

"Nothing doth more hurt in a state than that cunning men pass for wise." - Sir Francis Bacon