Actually, no. I just think you're operating off of an out-dated user manual.

See, I just fixed my dryer tonight (my daughter dropped a DVD down the lint vent, so I had to detach the back of the dryer and the lint vent in order to repair it).

Using the bible to dictate morality is like using the manual for this:



to fix this:



I think it's irrelevant. The vast majority of the old testament is composed of archaic laws that have virtually nothing to do with modern life. I don't buy that your book IS the user manual.

And, I'm about as informed about it as anyone on this board, I was a sunday school teacher in Southern Baptist church for years. I don't hate Christians, I just don't believe that an archaic document has relevance in dictating modern political policy.

So, can we proceed without it? Or are you unable to function without that manual?

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Job 13:5 (New International Version)
If only you would be altogether silent! For you, that would be wisdom.

So it doesn't come down to the manual. It comes down to the designer.

I say, that there are several manuals that leave us to believe that there is or isn't a designer. The ones that suck, lead me to believe they don't qualify, if I presume there's a designer capable of writing such a book. Why, because I have a standard.

Having no standard for a designer, how do you know if there is a manual or not? Do you even care?

Having no wish for a manual, do you really think its important for you to know if there is a designer? I would wager not.

I once asked a young man (who hates the very notion of God) this question:
If God were standing in the living room, right here, right now, would you believe?

His answer was, "No!"

I said, "Then stop telling me there's no evidence! Because you could care less about the evidence."

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"I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution." March 4, 1869, Grant's First Inaugural Address

she probably assumed youd just throw on a white beard and prance around in a sheet.

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Not to intrude, but only a brief 200 some-odd pages are 'law', the other thousand or so are history, wisdom, and prophecy. Two out of the three of these would earn their worth in investment of reading time. Carry on.

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"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." - Alexander Pope

Only if she's a monty python fan.

You on the other hand, I think He would look more like Morgan Freeman.

But I doubt if he's ready to send a page. To be honest, if there was a God, I would wager he's still waiting for an honest conversation. Which would involve much more than I could easily include in a forum post, for sure.

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"I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution." March 4, 1869, Grant's First Inaugural Address

I think you are mad that there is a manual you have to follow. I think, just by the nature of your response, that you don't want to follow the rules, but that bothers you that there might be consequence to that. So you test your presumption there is no rule maker. Cuz if you proove to yourself that there is no rule maker, then the excuse is ready made. What manual? What rules? I can do as I please. And who wants to make sense of it all, anyway, if the God of the Bible is in charge? All he will do is make me feel bad about my sin. And goodness knows, I have plenty of it (like us all) to feel bad about.

Name one archaic law that the old testament demands of you! Name one!

Honor your mother and your father... (was that hard for you?)
Be kind to strangers... (ouch)
Don't murder... (come close?)
Don't steal... (oh, now there's an easy one to obey)
Hmmm...
Worship God
Don't worship other gods (who really are air)

Or is it the Levitical Law?

Burnt offerings, sin offerings, unclean this and unclean that...?

Jesus did all the work in that area, for you... So you don't have to think about it.

What else? Name one!

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"I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution." March 4, 1869, Grant's First Inaugural Address

You've pre-judged who and what I am based upon your previous experiences with atheists. I'm not an atheist. I simply don't believe the Bible is a guidebook for dealing with modern affairs. I've read the entire book multiple times, and studied it extensively. I just don't believe it's any more true than any other religious book.

As far as other issues with the Bible, let me direct you here so you can focus on the question at hand, and not ad hominems.

Can you, or can you not, discuss the issue of abortion without relying on the Bible to make your case? This is a simple, yes or no question.

Thanks much.

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Job 13:5 (New International Version)
If only you would be altogether silent! For you, that would be wisdom.

The abortion issue is very strange to me. Women say that it's their right to choose what they will and will not do with thier body and that its nobodys place to tell them otherwise. Well, we (Gov't) tell people what they can and cannot do with their bodies all the time and I do not see people lobying for the right for women to commit suicide. Abortion is 95% about convenience and 5% about what abortion rights people say it is. I would appreciate them so much more if they would just say, "I think I should be able to kill my baby and its nobody's business." But the argument is hidden within the right to choose.

Amen, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

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"I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution." March 4, 1869, Grant's First Inaugural Address

If there is no God, then it comes down to a Utilitarian perspective, right? It makes me feel better about my life if I kill my baby... Go for it, there is nothing stopping you. Nothing will condemn you. Have it your way! It's your tissue, do as you please with it. Be my guest, who am I to stop you?

The Bible is the most unique book ever written. I will defy anyone to match it up against any other book ever written. Bar none.

The interp of such a book as the Bible, is for people who seek its writer. Nothing in the Bible leaves you to believe anything else. Read Psalm 119 if that unclear.

Read Hebrews 4:12; 2 Tim. 3:16 and 17... John 1:1... It doesn't let you think any less of it, than the authority it is.

Anyone who says they studied the Bible extensively and doesn't come away with that understanding isn't looking very hard.

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"I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution." March 4, 1869, Grant's First Inaugural Address