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Old 05-02-2007, 11:35 AM
dano dano is offline
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Default Abortion

I will try this again. I challenge anyone to answer this easy question. When do the sperm and egg of human beings become a human life? To refine my question, at what minute or second does one become the other wherein one consistutes a legal medical abortion and the other murder? There HAS to be a breakover point.
It is when the "thing" is still in the womb and attached, that the mother and "thing" are one being so the mother can choose to remove it as she would an infected cyst or tumor thus abosolving her her of any possible charge of murder or does the "thing" become an independent life (a child) with rights and protection of the law (that we should even need one stuns me) after it is born and the cord is cut, thus now producing two human beings?
Heck, if the cord is not cut maybe the mother(?) can still remove the "cyst", oh darn, there's that human being thing again. Hell, just smash it or give the "thing" that is still attached (but not separated yet and has no rights or protection) some drugs to render it useless, then cut the cord to the then qualified "thing" since there would be no heartbeat, breath only a shape of this "thing" _that looks human but isn't/wasn't) she wants removed from her body so she can go out and do it again and again and again and again and.....
It is really that hard to understand that the moment those cells merge, God (if you believe in one other than yourself) places a beautiful spirit in that human life?
Is your heart so hardened and you so selfish that the persuit of pleasure at any cost is worth it? Is fun, free, no consequences sex worth that much to you?
Does anyone have an answer for me, for the murdered children? How many times have we killed the next cure for AIDS, cancer, great healer of race relations, President, good and loving child, your son or daughter who would love you beyond measure. The destruction of what we have done is beyond our puny intellect to even begin to comprehend.
I am so thankful that there is a loving and forgiving God who can restore those murdered children. Say, just for the heck of it, if this where possible (and I know it is), what would you say to your son or daughter as to why your chose to murder them? Dad, mom, tell me; why did you kill me, why didn't you want me, or even give me to someone who would love me? Why?
The challenge has been issued! Courageous or a coward?
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Old 05-02-2007, 11:53 AM
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Default ...

The religious jargon doesn't help the argument, nor does the assumption about the motives of others. Sounds more like you're trying to affirm yourself to people who think the same rather than attempting to win over the opposition.
Personally I'm against abortion unless it is necessary to save the health of the mother or unless there is such a case when the kid is overwhelmingly likely to die at birth or be born with a fatal condition... and if it lives it will have a serious brain dysfunction that will prevent it from living any kind of life... At times like those, no answer is the right one and it shouldn't be up to You to decide what the mother should do. What I object to is the abortion of children strictly because the parents were not careful.
In all fairness, if the mother is going to give birth and give the child up for adoption, the man should be forced to pay for at least half the medical costs (why should he get to walk off with no consequences- he's the one statistically more likely to spread his seed again in the same situation).

Unfortunately, face it. Our society has a double standard when it comes to premarital sex and to having out-of-wedlock kids (especially since these days the man seems to never feel obliged to marry the mother... and will even weasel out of child support if at all possible). The result is that kids end up having kids... then panicking. Doesn't help that their parents are not the most approachable figures in the world, doesn't help that society stigmatizes young mothers without husbands, doesn't help that the kids are told time and time again that this will ruin their life... but of course, if they weren't told that they'd get themselves into this problem even more.
But there is a solution it seems that manages to bypass the parents or anyone else knowing what happened (and if that solution isn't there, there's abandonement and infanticide, which have been the "solution" for centuries).

The root of the problem is mixed messages.

As far as the religious banter, so what is your argument if people don't believe in souls? Is it any less logical that someone who doesn't believe in a soul defines life at a certain level of development or at birth? You'll never win over someone who hasn't bought into the soul idea without understanding that.

But it's true that most mothers who have abortions will regret it. They will feel guilt. It would work out better if they thought about it beforehand... but at least I can say it's a bit assumptive to claim people have abortions because they are hard-hearted.
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:44 PM
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Default well..

Well, abortion to me is a picky subject. I don't think it should be done, but I think it's there choice what to do. If they want to abort their own kids, let them.
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:06 AM
apotropoxy apotropoxy is offline
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Default Vital Fluids

Quote:
When do the sperm and egg of human beings become a human life?
1. The sperm is and must be alive prior to its egg penetration
2. The egg is and must be alive prior to its spermal invasion
3. If the above process is successful, a new living entity begins its journey
4. If this new entity succeeds in completing its gestation, is born and begins to breath, then it has passed through another stage of its cycle. It is at this stage that it attains legal rights comparable to its mother, who in her day, went through the same process.

Life began millions of years ago and continues through this delicious method.

We are all free to define your term "human life" as we will since you left it to the readers to impregnate it with the vital fluids of our own understandings.
For you to successfully engage in this discussion, you need to be clearer and develop a vocabulary with definitions that all parties can agree upon.
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