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Old 01-08-2008, 10:26 AM
Blade Blade is offline
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Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
Seems to me, the issue around abortion, is not "what is life" - the issue is, how are you going to define the rights of the unborn? Do they have property rights? How about habeas corpus, how are you gonna do that one?
Nonsensitur, as usual, comes up with the looney take on a serious issue.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:32 AM
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I had to laugh when I read Ron Paul's position on abortion. He wants to leave the decision to the states -- but he also wants to pass a law defining life as beginning at conception, thus essentially trumping whatever decision the states might make on the subject.

I think "viability" is a reasonable standard to use for whether abortion should be legal. And when I say "viable", I mean without heroic measures. As a practical matter, that means abortion would always be legal in the first trimester, mostly legal in the second, and largely illegal in the third.
This has always been and remains an arbitrary prescription on the issue. One might as well say "Duh - abortion should be legal up to 7 months, 3 days, and, duh, 13 hours."

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There should also be exceptions for things such as rape, serious birth defects and the health/life of the mother. If you think such exceptions are abused, then define them strictly and enforce those exceptions. But they should be there.
The "health of the mother" is an escape clause that in practice would allow any abortion to take place.
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: The Abortion Debate!

No mother who had an abortion ever committed a crime, or violated someones rights. Its the abortion doctors who would be the ones at fault for killing an unborn child.

I remember when Canada made abortions illegal, and a doctor flat out just performed an abortion on video and told the cops to come get him.

The cops came and got him, there was a federal court trial, and the Jury came back with not guilty. They charged him again, for doing the same thing, and the result happened again.

The law banning abortions was thrown out because whats the point if you can't convict the doctors. Even if you convict sometimes and can't others, its still so inconsistent that any court with throw out the law.

A Jury will draw the line in their head, regardless of what the law or constitution says.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:20 AM
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No mother who had an abortion ever committed a crime, or violated someones rights. Its the abortion doctors who would be the ones at fault for killing an unborn child.
I've begun to pick up on the fact that you are really big with unsupported opinions. Ever try adding some facts or logic?
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildbore View Post
No mother who had an abortion ever committed a crime, or violated someones rights. Its the abortion doctors who would be the ones at fault for killing an unborn child.
When someone hires a hitman to commit a murder, they are guilty of crimes and have violated the victim's rights.
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:17 PM
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i dont think unborn people have rights. if someone has a wet dream or masturbates, have they commited murder? violated someone's rights? lol.

life begins at conception? show me proof. there is none. its a completely arbitrary claim.
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"religion isnt unique to conservatives."

do you know what the above statement means? there is no "mostly unique;" thats like saying "sometimes always," its an oxymoron - its either one or the other.
You are incorrect, per google the phrase mostly unique comes up with over 3 million hits making the use of the phrase not so unique. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JMS View Post
if someone has a wet dream or masturbates, have they commited murder? violated someone's rights? lol.
Of course not, that is like trimming your fingernails. There is no unique individual person being killed during masturbation because there is no conception.

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life begins at conception? show me proof. there is none. its a completely arbitrary claim.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rXGucGtgWcs
It is alive and growing and has it's own unique genetic structure, therefor is not an appedage or organ of the mother or father.
So what is your opinion? Life begins at the birth canal? That is ridiculous and is contradictory to biology.
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:15 AM
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its not a person. its an embryo or fetus.

i never said life begins at birth, but it definitely doesnt begin whenever you want it to. just because you cant prove that life begins at conception doesnt mean you need to put words in my mouth. that wont help you.
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Originally Posted by JMS View Post
"religion isnt unique to conservatives."

do you know what the above statement means? there is no "mostly unique;" thats like saying "sometimes always," its an oxymoron - its either one or the other.
You are incorrect, per google the phrase mostly unique comes up with over 3 million hits making the use of the phrase not so unique. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
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Old 01-17-2008, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Sickntiredofliblies View Post
When someone hires a hitman to commit a murder, they are guilty of crimes and have violated the victim's rights.
But the mother is not guilty of murder. You would have a tough time convicting an abortion doctor of a crime in court, much less a women hiring the doctor to do something which a huge chunk of the US population thinks should be legal.

Good luck with that. It won't stop abortion doctors or mothers seeking abortions because they will just move to Liberal states where most of the people are pro-abortion and won't convict them, that is if abortions are made a crime.

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Originally Posted by Blade View Post
I've begun to pick up on the fact that you are really big with unsupported opinions. Ever try adding some facts or logic?
So I gave you logic, even a constitutional amendment and federal law won't stop abortions. You could try, but as I explained above, it won't work.

Even though I agree with you that fetus have rights, abortions are immoral and wrong, I disagree on the approach because I don't think its practical. I think it should be something for states to decide.
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Last edited by Wildbore; 01-17-2008 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildbore View Post
But the mother is not guilty of murder.
Right, because the law says so.
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