So if you have two conjoined twins and one would certainly die if they were separated, they should be separated anyway if the other twin wants it...because if the first one cant survive on her own it's just too (*)(*)(*)(*) bad, right?

Thats the analogy you are making.



Probably. But right now that isn't an option. So I am taking the next least offensive alternative.



Maybe on your side.

No, viability is not the issue for many people where abortion is concerned. the fetus has value even if it cannot survive outside the womb.


Not alone. But the American People have the right to decide collectively. You cant violate someone else's rights even if you personally believe they have no rights.


I don't recall making that claim. Please pay attention.


You'd have no way of knowing on an anonymous forum either way.


If you really believe that, why respond to me at all?



Because you do not believe the fetus is a person. You believe it is an object. The same way the Nazi's objectified Jews.

This is the reason Pro-lifers will never compromise with you. The only way you will ever convince us is to prove to us that the fetus is an object, not a person. Until you accomplish that, there is no sob-story that will be heart wrenching enough to convince us that the fetus can be killed because the mother decides it.



I already did that. I chose to elaborate further as a courtesy, since this is a debate and not a poll.


It is in this case. There are circumstances where I would find abortion acceptable. Convenience is not one of them.



What facts am I missing? Can you be specific?

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"So if you have two conjoined twins and one would certainly die if they were separated, they should be separated anyway if the other twin wants it...because if the first one cant survive on her own it's just too (*)(*)(*)(*) bad, right?

Thats the analogy you are making."

kind of... this only really applies to parasitic twins, though, in which case its not uncommon to sacrifice the underdeveloped twin for the other, even though it is technically alive but entirely dependent on the other.

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Well that was the inference I took from the following statement of yours. Perhaps I was wrong.

Quote:

"I have a right to judge the woman who kills her child in the same way that I have the right to judge NAMBLA for molesting children, or the Nazis for stuffing jews into ovens. If you are taking an innocent life for what amounts to convenience, you deserve to be judge IMO."

As for this...:
...perhaps you didn't read my first post fully:

I certainly do belive the foetus is a person. (btw it's not called a foetus until after 10 or 11 weeks. Before that it's an embryo).

These two comments are contradictory. Could you explain a little better what you mean?

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

What if the parasitic twin is conscious and self-aware? Does it still have rights?


Thats ok. I am happy to clarify.


If it is a person, then it has rights. Which means, by your logic, you should be in favor of outlawing abortion after 5 weeks. Right?


Why are they contradictory? The circumstances I mentioned have nothing to do with a sob story. Explain the contradiction.

An example of those circumstances are when the mother's life is at significant risk.

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"What if the parasitic twin is conscious and self-aware? Does it still have rights?"

im not sure about that one.

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You're not sure if a conscious and self aware person has a basic right to live?

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oh, you just wanted my opinion? i thought you were asking about rights, literally.

i think they should be allowed to live if theyre "conscious and self-aware," as long as it doesnt pose a risk to the lives of both twins. this is kind of going off topic now, though, because the unborn arent conscious and self-aware at conception - their brains arent even fully developed until months after fertilization.

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We already know the law here. This thread is about what SHOULD be legal, not what is currently legal. So all of this is opinion.


So if we recognize the parasitic twin as a person, we recognize that they have the basic right to live, even if it inconveniences the other twin. Correct?


Brain development actually doesnt stop until at least the teens, and maybe not even then.

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"So if we recognize the parasitic twin as a person, we recognize that they have the basic right to live, even if it inconveniences the other twin. Correct?"

if its conscious, sure, as long as that doesnt put them at risk.

"Brain development actually doesnt stop until at least the teens, and maybe not even then."

im talking about development in a responsive capacity, in the context of consciousness/awareness.

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I don't know if a parasitic twin is actually self-aware. I would be interested to see the medical data on that. Parasitic twins are not the same as conjoined twins.

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins