alright, i didnt want to take the "american superiority" thread off track because there was some heated debating going on there. but i wanna touch on some points that were brought up.

problem with this, aside from the fact the he didnt say they were children, is we need women after conception, too. the fetus cant survive, even with medical assistance, outside of the uterus in the early stages of development, which is when most abortions take place.

genocide and abortion are worlds apart. one involves actual living persons who are conscious and responsive, the other involves (for the most part) the opposite, and they dont live as your average human being does.

neither science nor the christian bible justify the prolife arguments. if you want to limit it to only the first 2 trimesters or something like that, compromise is a possibility. but to use this argument that any abortion is like murder is completely absurd.

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Seems to me, the issue around abortion, is not "what is life" - the issue is, how are you going to define the rights of the unborn? Do they have property rights? How about habeas corpus, how are you gonna do that one?

thats a very good point, but i think the beginning of life is also at the heart of that.

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I had to laugh when I read Ron Paul's position on abortion. He wants to leave the decision to the states -- but he also wants to pass a law defining life as beginning at conception, thus essentially trumping whatever decision the states might make on the subject.

I think "viability" is a reasonable standard to use for whether abortion should be legal. And when I say "viable", I mean without heroic measures. As a practical matter, that means abortion would always be legal in the first trimester, mostly legal in the second, and largely illegal in the third.

There should also be exceptions for things such as rape, serious birth defects and the health/life of the mother. If you think such exceptions are abused, then define them strictly and enforce those exceptions. But they should be there.

There should also be strong support groups for women who are prevented from having abortions, including access to adoption information, assistance (including financial) in choosing an adoption agency or family, and full-spectrum family-planning counseling. I don't want to be the person sending someone home with a baby they didn't want.

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prolifers should offer programs to pay for prenatal care and delivery costs along with all the other good stuff you mentioned, raytri.

btw, has anyone seen the movie juno? i enjoyed it very much, but couldnt help but notice the prolife message. it was anti prochoicers even. funny movie, though.

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It's on my Netflix list, but at the rate I'm watching them I won't get to it until June or so.

Wait a minute, though. I thought Hollywood was uberliberal and brainwashing us with their agenda? How did this one slip through? :8O:

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lol, i think it just came out in theatres. youll be waiting a while.

hollywood was distracted by the little, witty actress.

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Really? Are you sure about that? That would be very surprising to me, that bit about "legislating life". Where did you read that?

From the horse's mouth himself:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/

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Scarred survivor of the April 2008 Mod War.

well, even if you argue that life begins at conception (unfounded), you would have to argue that the unborn have rights that trump the mother's. its an uphill battle really - or at least it should be. so i suppose his wanting to define the beginning of life wouldnt necessarily go against his wanting to leave the choice up to states.

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